5 ms·

> Specifically, when prompted with a Windows 10 update, if the > user chose to decline it by hitting the ‘X’ in the upper right > hand corner, Microsoft inte

> Specifically, when prompted with a Windows 10 update, if the > user chose to decline it by hitting the ‘X’ in the upper right > hand corner, Microsoft interpreted that as consent to download > Windows 10. So what? I clicked that X multiple times and it didn't _install_. It may have _downloaded_, I'm not sure, but did not install.

dspillett 10y ago
> It may have _downloaded_, Was it bright enough to reliably detect metered connections (did it even try at all?). If not then just this could have cost people money. And consuming a couple of Gb of space could be a noticeable inconvenience on a small system (say one of the many tables and laptops with nothing more than a 64 or 32gb solid state drive).
- AnkhMorporkian 10y ago
  If you marked your connection as metered, I believe it respected that and wouldn't download it.
  - iotku 10y ago
    >If you marked your connection as metered, I believe it respected that and wouldn't download it. I don't recall windows 7 having any way to explicitly mark your connection as metered. As for Windows 8 (I believe it's the same as Windows 10), you can't mark a wired connection (ethernet) as metered if I recall correctly, even though you might be on a satellite internet connection for instance which most definitely is heavily metered.
    - AnkhMorporkian 10y ago
      I can't speak for Windows 7, but I believe you could mark an ethernet as metered in Win 8, but you definitely can't in Win 10. Edit: I take it back, I was wrong. No ethernet metering. You can do it via regedit, but no way to do it from the UI.
prplhaz4 10y ago
Yea, I'm not sure this article is completely accurate either. I waited until the very last day of the free upgrade, only clicking the "X", and never had a surprise Win10 install.
sunnyps 10y ago
They changed this behavior after huge public outcry. It used to install the update too. Microsoft was even ordered to pay $10k in a civil suit[1] because of this. [1] http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/27/12046738/microsoft-pays-10k-over-windows-10-auto-update http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/27/12046738/microsoft-pays-10...
- kyberias 10y ago
  I don't believe this. That article nor the article it links did not state that Windows forced the install at any point. Rather the Washington Times article states that: "The company denies wrongdoing, and a spokeswoman said Microsoft halted its appeal to avoid the expense of further litigation." And: "Microsoft says it offers users a choice to update, not a requirement. People have to acknowledge a dialogue box before the installation, and agree to a license agreement afterward, to receive Windows 10, the company says." I've experienced the process on multiple PCs starting from day 1 when Microsoft started the campaign at it never _forced_ me to install. Specifically, the Close button never started the installation. There _always_ was a specific button to accept the start of the installation.
  - falcolas 10y ago
    An anecdata point for the "did force" - what it did to me was schedule the upgrade for a specific time, and the dialog let me know that's when it was scheduled. You had to change the scheduled time to "do not upgrade" to avoid the upgrade; simply closing the dialog left the scheduled update in place.
  - scholia 10y ago
    I had the same experience -- I have numerous PCs and no evidence of any attempt at a forced installation. Not even on my wife's PC, and she's as non-technical as people get. I've generally assumed that people either don't actually read what's in front of their faces (probably pretty common among the non-computerate), or don't understand what they read (ditto), or they panic and do something stupid. Of course, I have no evidence for any of these assumptions in Windows 10's case, but I've seen them in other situations. I know people who apparently can't tell the difference between an operating system, a web browser and an email service -- or else they just don't have the vocabulary to express such distinctions. It takes some time to find out what they've actually done, and why. The idea that they know which party is at fault is generally not one that fits reality. Note: this is not a defense of "dark patterns" or whatever. I'd assume Microsoft has a good idea of the technical level of much of its audience, and that it should therefore have been extra extra careful to communicate the Windows 10 upgrade in a far clearer manner than it did.
sp332 10y ago
Yeah I think there's a step missing in their description. I think you had to start the install process, then try to cancel out of it by pressing X.
SixSigma 10y ago
> So what? My 4Gb per month download limit doesn't like secret 10Gb downloads, that's what
spyder 10y ago
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/03/windows_10_upgrade_satellite_link/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/03/windows_10_upgrade_s... https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_in_the_central_african_bush_we_pay_for/?st=irz8pfe6&sh=d9a875f2 https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_i...
ominous 10y ago
You are not sure if your OS decided to download gigabytes of data using your home connection.

dspillett 10y ago

> It may have _downloaded_, Was it bright enough to reliably detect metered connections (did it even try at all?). If not then just this could have cost people money. And consuming a couple of Gb of space could be a noticeable inconvenience on a small system (say one of the many tables and laptops with nothing more than a 64 or 32gb solid state drive).

AnkhMorporkian 10y ago
If you marked your connection as metered, I believe it respected that and wouldn't download it.
- iotku 10y ago
  >If you marked your connection as metered, I believe it respected that and wouldn't download it. I don't recall windows 7 having any way to explicitly mark your connection as metered. As for Windows 8 (I believe it's the same as Windows 10), you can't mark a wired connection (ethernet) as metered if I recall correctly, even though you might be on a satellite internet connection for instance which most definitely is heavily metered.
  - AnkhMorporkian 10y ago
    I can't speak for Windows 7, but I believe you could mark an ethernet as metered in Win 8, but you definitely can't in Win 10. Edit: I take it back, I was wrong. No ethernet metering. You can do it via regedit, but no way to do it from the UI.

prplhaz4 10y ago

Yea, I'm not sure this article is completely accurate either. I waited until the very last day of the free upgrade, only clicking the "X", and never had a surprise Win10 install.

sunnyps 10y ago

They changed this behavior after huge public outcry. It used to install the update too. Microsoft was even ordered to pay $10k in a civil suit[1] because of this. [1] http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/27/12046738/microsoft-pays-10k-over-windows-10-auto-update http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/27/12046738/microsoft-pays-10...

kyberias 10y ago
I don't believe this. That article nor the article it links did not state that Windows forced the install at any point. Rather the Washington Times article states that: "The company denies wrongdoing, and a spokeswoman said Microsoft halted its appeal to avoid the expense of further litigation." And: "Microsoft says it offers users a choice to update, not a requirement. People have to acknowledge a dialogue box before the installation, and agree to a license agreement afterward, to receive Windows 10, the company says." I've experienced the process on multiple PCs starting from day 1 when Microsoft started the campaign at it never _forced_ me to install. Specifically, the Close button never started the installation. There _always_ was a specific button to accept the start of the installation.
- falcolas 10y ago
  An anecdata point for the "did force" - what it did to me was schedule the upgrade for a specific time, and the dialog let me know that's when it was scheduled. You had to change the scheduled time to "do not upgrade" to avoid the upgrade; simply closing the dialog left the scheduled update in place.
- scholia 10y ago
  I had the same experience -- I have numerous PCs and no evidence of any attempt at a forced installation. Not even on my wife's PC, and she's as non-technical as people get. I've generally assumed that people either don't actually read what's in front of their faces (probably pretty common among the non-computerate), or don't understand what they read (ditto), or they panic and do something stupid. Of course, I have no evidence for any of these assumptions in Windows 10's case, but I've seen them in other situations. I know people who apparently can't tell the difference between an operating system, a web browser and an email service -- or else they just don't have the vocabulary to express such distinctions. It takes some time to find out what they've actually done, and why. The idea that they know which party is at fault is generally not one that fits reality. Note: this is not a defense of "dark patterns" or whatever. I'd assume Microsoft has a good idea of the technical level of much of its audience, and that it should therefore have been extra extra careful to communicate the Windows 10 upgrade in a far clearer manner than it did.

sp332 10y ago

Yeah I think there's a step missing in their description. I think you had to start the install process, then try to cancel out of it by pressing X.

SixSigma 10y ago

> So what? My 4Gb per month download limit doesn't like secret 10Gb downloads, that's what

spyder 10y ago

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/03/windows_10_upgrade_satellite_link/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/06/03/windows_10_upgrade_s... https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_in_the_central_african_bush_we_pay_for/?st=irz8pfe6&sh=d9a875f2 https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_i...

ominous 10y ago

You are not sure if your OS decided to download gigabytes of data using your home connection.