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"Christian admitted that Tesla’s regular maintenance repairs like brakes and bearings cost more than those on his old car, a Subaru Legacy" And the "drive unit

• 3princip 10y ago
  Two engine replacements, in a little over two years? Yikes. How expensive is the drive train compared to a combustion engine? maybe I'm missing something.
  • giarc 10y ago
    Drive train was replaced 2x for free.
    • 3princip 10y ago
      Is that sustainable? For Tesla I mean. They can't keep changing drive trains for everybody at no cost.
      • maxerickson 10y ago
        It's likely brand building. I doubt they are as generous with the Model 3. I would also sort of expect them to adjust the terms for new buyers of the more expensive cars once they figure out their actual lifetime costs for the warranty.
        • johnward 10y ago
          I'm curious to see what they offer on the Model 3. I'm guess they go back to a more industry standard warranty.
      • giarc 10y ago
        They only do it for 8 years, part of their Infinite Mile Warranty. [0] 0 - https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/blog/infinite-mile-warranty?redirect=no https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/blog/infinite-mile-warranty?redi...
  • jpgvm 10y ago
    You are missing that the drive train design was entirely new when Model S was released and had some design problems that needed fixing, hence the free replacements.
    • 3princip 10y ago
      Yes, but twice? The whole drive train. Maybe it's simpler to replace it and refurbish it later, so they just take out the old and give you a new one.
      • NickM 10y ago
        > Maybe it's simpler to replace it and refurbish it later, so they just take out the old and give you a new one. That's exactly right. The whole drive unit can drop right out of the bottom of the car, so when there are any issues, Tesla will just replace the whole thing so that you don't have to wait for the unit to be repaired. They can then refurbish the broken drivetrain on their own time and then use it to replace someone else's failed unit in the future.
      • deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
  • mattmanser 10y ago
    It clearly says in the article those were early drive shafts that had a known defect.
  • hx87 10y ago
    About as expensive as a high end luxury gasoline drivetrain, I assume. A replacement short block alone on my Lexus LS is $23k.
    • jschwartzi 10y ago
      That's as much as my entire truck cost, new.
  • tsomctl 10y ago
    Subaru engines are not known for their reliability.
    • jackvalentine 10y ago
      Do the north-American subarus (produced at the old Isuzu-Subaru plant, not Japan like are exported elsewhere) have significantly different quality? I've driven a 500,000km 1992 Liberty (legacy) Turbo before with original gearbox, engine and turbo. A bit of a nerd fan of these early Libertys all of them these days have between 250,000 and 450,000km on them as a given. Similarly there are many, many subarus running around in Australia with several hundred thousand kilometres on them and no major issues. In Australia, Subaru engines are generally known for their reliability.
• chrisseaton 10y ago
  > he has managed to save $43 a month on gas! He saved $250 a month on gasoline didn't he?
• giarc 10y ago
  That math doesn't work out. $5000/year on gas is $416/month. $3700 charging over 2.5 years is $123/month. That's a saving of $293/month.
  • semi-extrinsic 10y ago
    Ah, you're right, my mistake. I thought both numbers were for 2.5 years; $1300/30 = $46.
• choicewords 10y ago
  Not only that, but the parts he did replace are more expensive that his old car. In other news, a luxury car does not compete well on economics alone.
• deleted 10y ago
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• osolo 10y ago
  $3700/2.5 years in electricity vs projected $12,500 in gas. So about $8800 in savings over 2.5 years, ~$293/mo, ~$3500/year. Still makes it hard to justify the Tesla based on just the gas savings, unless he keeps the car for >15 years.
• hourislate 10y ago
  We are talking about a Taxi. The maintenance costs for a typical driver should be far less. His situation is unique since he drives a Taxi in Quebec. It is a very harsh environment there in the winter and the roads are horrendous and will wear out a 4x4. There are pot holes that will swallow a car. Hence the wheel bearings. Brakes in a Taxi are replaced very frequently. Where a typically driver might replace them once every 2-3 years a Taxi might replace them 2-3 times a year. The power train warranty (unlimited mileage) has covered his drive unit which I imagine is like a transmission and not the electric motors.
  • semi-extrinsic 10y ago
    Why would a taxi replace brake pads 2-3 times a year? They're not that frequently replaced, about 100k miles is normal. And looking up "Tesla drive unit", you can see it's actually the electric motor + gearbox + inverter.
• mikestew 10y ago
  As I've said before, electric cars won't mean a significant decrease in maintenance costs. Gee, a niche luxury brand has higher parts costs than mass-produced Japanese cars. Who would have guessed? That might explain why brake pads on my BMW motorcycle cost ungodly amounts more than those for my last Honda. Meanwhile, over here in the land where the other 90% of the world lives, we haven't done jack to our Nissan Leaf in 30K miles, save a cabin air filter and a set of tires ('cuz the stocks ones suck). Granted, for a Japanese car 30K means "it'll finally be broken in soon", but even our "reliable as a crowbar" Scion xB with 80K needs regular oil changes and gasoline. Had to do brake pads and rotors on the Scion once, too, whereas I expect the pads on the Leaf to last the life of the car (thanks, regen braking). In another 20K miles I expect things like starter and alternator to start failing on the Scion. OTOH, by 100K miles the Leaf will probably need a new $5K battery pack. In the end, though, I think the difference in maintenance costs is going to be minimal for most. The only difference is the drive train (and arguably brakes), and modern ICE's are pretty darned reliable and long-lived these days.
  • semi-extrinsic 10y ago
    I agree that the difference in maintenance cost will be minimal. Curious: this probably depends on the climate where you live, but how's the Leaf looking wrt. brake disc rust? I have had to replace rusted brake discs on a normal car due to poorly working rear calipers. Basically, brake discs don't rust because braking while driving heats them up so they dry out. I would imagine regen braking (like a bad caliper) does not produce enough heat to dry them off.
    • mikestew 10y ago
      There will be surface rust on anything that sits for more than a couple of days (non-automotive example: railroad tracks). But that gets scrubbed off the first time the pads hit discs. The Leaf pads will hit discs at least once on every trip, coming up to a stoplight if nothing else. In your case, if the caliper is stuck and pads never hit disc, I could see that being a problem. But to directly answer your question: looking at the discs through the wheel spokes, they're still nice and shiny so I'm going to assume that it's not a problem. I suppose it's entirely possible that Nissan accounted for this and rejiggered the content of the discs, but I don't know one way or the other.
• makomk 10y ago
  Also, stuff like door handles have known reliability issues on the Model S and are expensive to replace too, Tesla don't supply parts to third party repair shops, and the warranty on everything other than the drive train is shorter and limited-mileage. (Which means that yes, people have paid out of pocket to repair failed door handles and the like because they're over the mileage limit.)
  • semi-extrinsic 10y ago
    I've also seen a fair share with a failing third brake light, about half of the LEDs not lighting up. Probably isn't noticed by the driver until regular service, government inspection, etc. It's not a surprise that many things fail on a complex assembly with all new parts. No wonder automakers do their best to share small stuff like buttons, latches, door handles etc. between many makes and models.
• outworlder 10y ago
  > As I've said before, electric cars won't mean a significant decrease in maintenance costs. Why? They have way less parts. No fuel pump, filter, oil, spark plugs, electronic injection, engine cooling, etc etc. Drive unit getting replaced is bad. But this seems to be a Tesla-specific manufacturing issue. You don't see those on the (admittedly wimpier) Nissan Leaf. How does it compare to a high performance car?
  • r00fus 10y ago
    Even my Prius has yet to replace it's brake pads over it's 11 year life. 150k miles. No transmission/clutch/etc. Even engine issues are nonexistent.
  • semi-extrinsic 10y ago
    My car ('02 Peugeot 307, 1.6 petrol) has done 155k miles. Fuel pump and filter is still original, fuel injection system is still original, etc. The ICE-specific expensive parts that have been replaced is the timing belt and water pump (once, at maintenance interval), battery and alternator (once, broken), the clutch (once, worn out), and some of the exhaust (rusted). Total cost of those come to about $400+$400+$300+$200 = $1300 over 14 years. After 155k miles and 14 years, the electric car will be looking at a new battery pack, costing in the $5000 range. Then of course there are wear'n'tear stuff like suspension parts, wheel bearings, brake pads, new tires etc. that you also have on an electric car. But take e.g. brake pads, I just replaced both rear ones, cost me all of $40 for the pads, took two hours to do myself. I did the rear shocks two years ago, that cost $70 in parts and an hour of work. For most people, who don't fix their cars themselves, the main cost is for the work at the shop. Local garage quoted me $340 for replacing those rear shocks. A Haynes manual for your car, some coveralls and some spanners is a ridiculously good investment. And then there is regular ICE maintenance: oil and oil filter once a year, $50. Spark plugs, about every four years, $60. And regular maintenance that also EVs need: window wipers once a year, $40. Washer fluid, ~ $40 per year. Regular washing and polishing, $80-$150 per year.