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From the article: > He can’t believe, he says, that a multibillion-dollar corporation isn’t doing more to stop crime. Instead, he says, it offloads the job to

From the article: > He can’t believe, he says, that a multibillion-dollar corporation isn’t doing more to stop crime. Instead, he says, it offloads the job to the police at taxpayers’ expense. I think citizens should be very concerned about the notion that instead of their taxpayer-supported police doing the policing, an expectation of corporations policing their own territory should exist. That's a little bit Snow Crash, isn't it?

wpietri 10y ago
Is it? I think there's a long-standing expectation that you take care of your own space, that emergency services are there for emergencies. In any case, the asked-for remedy is basically to return to their staffing levels of a decade ago, which doesn't sound like a corporate dystopia to me.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  So you are perfectly happy with walmart branded cops roaming their property, using force against people and putting them in a walmart branded jail until the real cops come to pick them up? Note that in reality this option inevitably includes walmart cops accidentally beating up an innocent black person, a sympathetic sick mother dying in walmart jail of some pre-existing medical issues, and similar things. (All I'm assuming here is that walmart cops/jails are identical to US Govt cops/jails.) You'll have no problem with walmart when these things occur? You're sure that the media won't criticize them for this as well?
  - jbooth 10y ago
    The premise here is that Wal-mart spends much less on security than other shopping centers like malls and Target. I haven't seen a lot of news stories about civil rights violations by Target's security guards. Maybe they're under the radar?
    - yummyfajitas 10y ago
      Most likely Target simply has fewer criminals in their customer base. The simple fact is that any law enforcement will result in some civil rights violations. It's just a statistical inevitability. This is one of the reasons I'm extremely cautious about new regulations; part of the price of a new law is one or two more Eric Garners.
      - jbooth 10y ago
        Having somebody visible near the store entrance so that you're not a complete magnet for crime that creates taxpayer expense.. not exactly Eric Garner.
        yummyfajitas 10y ago
        And what happens when the criminal class discovers that the $18k/year greeter near the store entrance will do nothing? Why will this be a remotely useful deterrent in that case? Consider the possibility that if the greeters actually prevented a significant amount of shrinkage, walmart would have kept them. The cases being referred to the cops are only a tiny percentage of the shrinkage that occurs.
        jbooth 10y ago
        "Consider the possibility that if the greeters actually prevented a significant amount of shrinkage, walmart would have kept them." It's a possibility, I guess. But I've seen enough MBAs cut costs with poorly understood consequences to be a little skeptical of that assertion. How would they even know? Did they run a controlled experiment? Or did they just say a prayer to Jack Welch and cut anything they could?
        jessaustin 10y ago
        It seems they've been running the experiment over the last decade? An executive will never get fired for cutting costs. Even if the cut costs destroy the company, she'll be off to greener pastures before that happens.
  - douche 10y ago
    College campuses across the country are setup exactly this way already. Similarly with large shopping malls and their rent-a-cops.
    - yummyfajitas 10y ago
      Clearly you think that if a model works well in a high trust community full of high intelligence high conscientiousness people who've spent $20k/year to be there, it'll work for Walmart. I know of a hippy commune (upper middle class, mid 50's, entirely white/asian, yoga/meditation/etc types) that lets you operate the store cash register yourself. Admittedly the store is not as extensive at walmart, it mostly just sells organic vegan flax seed cookies. If you don't have enough cash you can just pay them tomorrow. So why can't walmart just adopt that model? (I know, I'm hinting at the naughty and unspeakable idea that walmart shoppers are bad people who steal and commit other crimes.)
    - justinlardinois 10y ago
      > College campuses across the country are setup exactly this way already. Really? I suppose that depends on where you are and whether it's a public or private college. Public universities in California have their own police departments, but they're run by the state government.
  - deleted 10y ago
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  - wpietri 10y ago
    If you'd read all the way to my third sentence, you'd know that I am not suggesting anything like that.
adrianparsons 10y ago
From the article: According to laws in every state in the U.S., Walmart has a duty to protect its customers from violent crime while they’re on store property. Under an area of the law known as premise liability, victims and their lawyers have argued in hundreds of lawsuits that Walmart failed to provide enough security.
antisthenes 10y ago
The problem here isn't the expectation of Walmart having a corporate police force, it's the expectation of some Walmart stores to be prioritized in the case of an understaffed police district without paying their fair share for a public service.
- pc86 10y ago
  > without paying their fair share I see this argument a lot and there are never numbers to back it up. If Walmart isn't paying the taxes it legally owes, then they should be fined and there should be charges brought. If they are, then they are already paying their fair share as determined by the law and implying otherwise is at best extremely disingenuous. Let he who voluntarily donates additional money to the US Treasury cast the first snarky HN comment, or something.

wpietri 10y ago

Is it? I think there's a long-standing expectation that you take care of your own space, that emergency services are there for emergencies. In any case, the asked-for remedy is basically to return to their staffing levels of a decade ago, which doesn't sound like a corporate dystopia to me.

yummyfajitas 10y ago
So you are perfectly happy with walmart branded cops roaming their property, using force against people and putting them in a walmart branded jail until the real cops come to pick them up? Note that in reality this option inevitably includes walmart cops accidentally beating up an innocent black person, a sympathetic sick mother dying in walmart jail of some pre-existing medical issues, and similar things. (All I'm assuming here is that walmart cops/jails are identical to US Govt cops/jails.) You'll have no problem with walmart when these things occur? You're sure that the media won't criticize them for this as well?
- jbooth 10y ago
  The premise here is that Wal-mart spends much less on security than other shopping centers like malls and Target. I haven't seen a lot of news stories about civil rights violations by Target's security guards. Maybe they're under the radar?
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    Most likely Target simply has fewer criminals in their customer base. The simple fact is that any law enforcement will result in some civil rights violations. It's just a statistical inevitability. This is one of the reasons I'm extremely cautious about new regulations; part of the price of a new law is one or two more Eric Garners.
    - jbooth 10y ago
      Having somebody visible near the store entrance so that you're not a complete magnet for crime that creates taxpayer expense.. not exactly Eric Garner.
      - yummyfajitas 10y ago
        And what happens when the criminal class discovers that the $18k/year greeter near the store entrance will do nothing? Why will this be a remotely useful deterrent in that case? Consider the possibility that if the greeters actually prevented a significant amount of shrinkage, walmart would have kept them. The cases being referred to the cops are only a tiny percentage of the shrinkage that occurs.
        jbooth 10y ago
        "Consider the possibility that if the greeters actually prevented a significant amount of shrinkage, walmart would have kept them." It's a possibility, I guess. But I've seen enough MBAs cut costs with poorly understood consequences to be a little skeptical of that assertion. How would they even know? Did they run a controlled experiment? Or did they just say a prayer to Jack Welch and cut anything they could?
        jessaustin 10y ago
        It seems they've been running the experiment over the last decade? An executive will never get fired for cutting costs. Even if the cut costs destroy the company, she'll be off to greener pastures before that happens.
- douche 10y ago
  College campuses across the country are setup exactly this way already. Similarly with large shopping malls and their rent-a-cops.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    Clearly you think that if a model works well in a high trust community full of high intelligence high conscientiousness people who've spent $20k/year to be there, it'll work for Walmart. I know of a hippy commune (upper middle class, mid 50's, entirely white/asian, yoga/meditation/etc types) that lets you operate the store cash register yourself. Admittedly the store is not as extensive at walmart, it mostly just sells organic vegan flax seed cookies. If you don't have enough cash you can just pay them tomorrow. So why can't walmart just adopt that model? (I know, I'm hinting at the naughty and unspeakable idea that walmart shoppers are bad people who steal and commit other crimes.)
  - justinlardinois 10y ago
    > College campuses across the country are setup exactly this way already. Really? I suppose that depends on where you are and whether it's a public or private college. Public universities in California have their own police departments, but they're run by the state government.
- deleted 10y ago
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- deleted 10y ago
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- wpietri 10y ago
  If you'd read all the way to my third sentence, you'd know that I am not suggesting anything like that.

adrianparsons 10y ago

From the article: According to laws in every state in the U.S., Walmart has a duty to protect its customers from violent crime while they’re on store property. Under an area of the law known as premise liability, victims and their lawyers have argued in hundreds of lawsuits that Walmart failed to provide enough security.

antisthenes 10y ago

The problem here isn't the expectation of Walmart having a corporate police force, it's the expectation of some Walmart stores to be prioritized in the case of an understaffed police district without paying their fair share for a public service.

pc86 10y ago
> without paying their fair share I see this argument a lot and there are never numbers to back it up. If Walmart isn't paying the taxes it legally owes, then they should be fined and there should be charges brought. If they are, then they are already paying their fair share as determined by the law and implying otherwise is at best extremely disingenuous. Let he who voluntarily donates additional money to the US Treasury cast the first snarky HN comment, or something.