6 ms·

I always wonder what happens to those software engineers, the "hack through the night" sort of guys. They must eventually burn out, or get replaced by the young

I always wonder what happens to those software engineers, the "hack through the night" sort of guys. They must eventually burn out, or get replaced by the younger developers who are onto the next "hack through the night" project. There must reach a stage in development where you're considered "too old" (sadly) or haven't kept up with the latest and greatest in trends. What do you do then?? Project manage? Do all developers move into project management? I see this mildly where I work where older developers are greatly valued (they're good!) but haven't kept up to date, eg. a lot of C++ is here, but nobody here (and I mean nobody) has any understanding of C++11, C++14 changes and are stuck in the C++98 ways. They even call C++11 "C++0x" still. This is different to the "learn the next fad" approach, as C++98/2003 deserve to go away.

hvidgaard 10y ago
There is a difference between not knowing the latest and greatest, and not keeping yourself updated with the evolution of your tool of choice. Most people will do the former after a while. It's too much time spend with too little gain. The latter however is not acceptable. I want my developers to know about the latest version of .net, and if they're not using linq they're doing it wrong.
- cm2187 10y ago
  But if they are not using WCF they are doing it right! Not all evolutions of the tool should be followed blindly.
  - pjc50 10y ago
    Indeed. Pioneers are the people with arrows in their backs. For a stable system it's reasonable to wait before adopting change; especially if large areas of the existing system are built with a previous technology. Moving to new changes results in internal inconsistency, and possibly problems at the boundaries.
  - hvidgaard 10y ago
    I never stated all evolution should be followed blindly. But once the evolution becomes established as best practice, there is very few reasons to not do it.
    - cm2187 10y ago
      But 8y ago WCF was marketed by Microsoft as the future of web services. It was clear to me from the outset that it was a mightmare to configure and unecessary complex. Now I think it is the generally accepted view. But if we have to wait 8 years for each new technology...
      - 72deluxe 10y ago
        8 years for each new technology indeed.... MFC anyone? With the push to Universal Apps (that nobody appears to be heeding), what is Microsoft's recommended toolkit for C++ in Windows now eh? Here we are with > 2 million lines of C++, entirely MFC and COM.
bluedino 10y ago
>> There must reach a stage in development where you're considered "too old" (sadly) or haven't kept up with the latest and greatest in trends. Just imagine how much knowledge and experience these guys have and is effectively being lost by them being out of the workforce.
r_smart 10y ago
I work with a guy like this. His knowledge base is vast (we're electrical engineers and he's a master of both hardware and software). He's also a shambling zombie from a lifetime of hacking through the night. I'm not exaggerating. He mostly just shuffles through his days, trying to get anything done, but he's just too fried. He rarely sleeps. I've never seen him eat. He won't take vacation days. He seems to have decided a long time ago to just drive himself insane. Honestly, I think if he weren't one of the guys the company can't afford to lose because he knows things about our products no one else in the building does, they'd probably let him go.
justinhj 10y ago
This is a personality thing I think. Some people do want to just stick with what they know by the time they are 25 and would rather be unemployed or in management than learn something new. I'm 45. I've worked in video games for my entire working life. Yet throughout that time I've shifted roles drastically every 5-10 years. This keeps things fresh and it lets me stay employed and in demand without having to become a hands-off manager or sit in the corner working on legacy code.

hvidgaard 10y ago

There is a difference between not knowing the latest and greatest, and not keeping yourself updated with the evolution of your tool of choice. Most people will do the former after a while. It's too much time spend with too little gain. The latter however is not acceptable. I want my developers to know about the latest version of .net, and if they're not using linq they're doing it wrong.

cm2187 10y ago
But if they are not using WCF they are doing it right! Not all evolutions of the tool should be followed blindly.
- pjc50 10y ago
  Indeed. Pioneers are the people with arrows in their backs. For a stable system it's reasonable to wait before adopting change; especially if large areas of the existing system are built with a previous technology. Moving to new changes results in internal inconsistency, and possibly problems at the boundaries.
- hvidgaard 10y ago
  I never stated all evolution should be followed blindly. But once the evolution becomes established as best practice, there is very few reasons to not do it.
  - cm2187 10y ago
    But 8y ago WCF was marketed by Microsoft as the future of web services. It was clear to me from the outset that it was a mightmare to configure and unecessary complex. Now I think it is the generally accepted view. But if we have to wait 8 years for each new technology...
    - 72deluxe 10y ago
      8 years for each new technology indeed.... MFC anyone? With the push to Universal Apps (that nobody appears to be heeding), what is Microsoft's recommended toolkit for C++ in Windows now eh? Here we are with > 2 million lines of C++, entirely MFC and COM.

bluedino 10y ago

>> There must reach a stage in development where you're considered "too old" (sadly) or haven't kept up with the latest and greatest in trends. Just imagine how much knowledge and experience these guys have and is effectively being lost by them being out of the workforce.

r_smart 10y ago

I work with a guy like this. His knowledge base is vast (we're electrical engineers and he's a master of both hardware and software). He's also a shambling zombie from a lifetime of hacking through the night. I'm not exaggerating. He mostly just shuffles through his days, trying to get anything done, but he's just too fried. He rarely sleeps. I've never seen him eat. He won't take vacation days. He seems to have decided a long time ago to just drive himself insane. Honestly, I think if he weren't one of the guys the company can't afford to lose because he knows things about our products no one else in the building does, they'd probably let him go.

justinhj 10y ago

This is a personality thing I think. Some people do want to just stick with what they know by the time they are 25 and would rather be unemployed or in management than learn something new. I'm 45. I've worked in video games for my entire working life. Yet throughout that time I've shifted roles drastically every 5-10 years. This keeps things fresh and it lets me stay employed and in demand without having to become a hands-off manager or sit in the corner working on legacy code.