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To me, it's about reducing the impedance mismatch between your data model and the implementation of that model in the database schema. Some data work better in

by _pius 17y ago

To me, it's about reducing the impedance mismatch between your data model and the implementation of that model in the database schema. Some data work better in a relational model and others work better in a document model. The idea of one ending the other seems preposterous to me. Congrats on the launch though!

justinsb 17y ago
Cool answer - thanks. I guess some of this is about better ORMs, some of this is the schemaless idea, and probably the real answer is a combination of both. I worry that object databases were the last attempt to solve the impedance mismatch...
neilc 17y ago
Of course, this is a very old idea (predating the invention of relational databases, even) -- it just gets reinvented every decade or so, with a fresh helping of media hype.
- rbanffy 17y ago
  It really gets old, doesn't it? I've seen so many market changes in my career and, yet, I still write code in a text editor with a terminal window on its side. All of them under a nice windowing environment.
- jrockway 17y ago
  Of course, this decade, we actually have OOP, so OO databases make a lot more sense.
  - easp 17y ago
    We had OOP last decade, and the one before that too.
jemfinch 17y ago
> To me, it's about reducing the impedance mismatch between your data model and the implementation of that model in the database schema. The whole point of that "impedance" in the relational model is to for people to think about their data and describe it in a program-independent way: years of experience in the field is what led to its development and what contributes to its continued relevance. Saying that's a problem with the relational model is like saying that design patterns are flawed because they describe commonly used OO designs. > To me, it's about reducing the impedance mismatch between your data model and the implementation of that model in the database schema. I'm not sure what sort of impedance mismatch could exist between a program and a relational model but not between a program and a document model. The latter is trivially implementable in terms of the former.
- _pius 17y ago
  Take a look at my comment again, I think you think I'm saying something I didn't. The whole point of that "impedance" in the relational model is to for people to think about their data and describe it in a program-independent way .... The relational model is hardly the only way to reason about data in a program-independent way. ... years of experience in the field is what led to its development and what contributes to its continued relevance. I agree, never said otherwise. Saying that's a problem with the relational model is like saying that design patterns are flawed because they describe commonly used OO designs. I didn't say there's a problem with the relational model. I'm not sure what sort of impedance mismatch could exist between a program and a relational model ... I never said the word "program," you did. I said "data model." You're conflating the data model with the program code (or maybe you think I am, can't really tell). They are not the same thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_data_type http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_data_type All I said is that there are some domains for which relational models make sense and there are others for which document-oriented (or other "NoSQL") models make sense.

by _pius 17y ago

justinsb 17y ago

Cool answer - thanks. I guess some of this is about better ORMs, some of this is the schemaless idea, and probably the real answer is a combination of both. I worry that object databases were the last attempt to solve the impedance mismatch...

neilc 17y ago

Of course, this is a very old idea (predating the invention of relational databases, even) -- it just gets reinvented every decade or so, with a fresh helping of media hype.

rbanffy 17y ago
It really gets old, doesn't it? I've seen so many market changes in my career and, yet, I still write code in a text editor with a terminal window on its side. All of them under a nice windowing environment.
jrockway 17y ago
Of course, this decade, we actually have OOP, so OO databases make a lot more sense.
- easp 17y ago
  We had OOP last decade, and the one before that too.

jemfinch 17y ago

> To me, it's about reducing the impedance mismatch between your data model and the implementation of that model in the database schema. The whole point of that "impedance" in the relational model is to for people to think about their data and describe it in a program-independent way: years of experience in the field is what led to its development and what contributes to its continued relevance. Saying that's a problem with the relational model is like saying that design patterns are flawed because they describe commonly used OO designs. > To me, it's about reducing the impedance mismatch between your data model and the implementation of that model in the database schema. I'm not sure what sort of impedance mismatch could exist between a program and a relational model but not between a program and a document model. The latter is trivially implementable in terms of the former.

_pius 17y ago
Take a look at my comment again, I think you think I'm saying something I didn't. The whole point of that "impedance" in the relational model is to for people to think about their data and describe it in a program-independent way .... The relational model is hardly the only way to reason about data in a program-independent way. ... years of experience in the field is what led to its development and what contributes to its continued relevance. I agree, never said otherwise. Saying that's a problem with the relational model is like saying that design patterns are flawed because they describe commonly used OO designs. I didn't say there's a problem with the relational model. I'm not sure what sort of impedance mismatch could exist between a program and a relational model ... I never said the word "program," you did. I said "data model." You're conflating the data model with the program code (or maybe you think I am, can't really tell). They are not the same thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_data_type http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstract_data_type All I said is that there are some domains for which relational models make sense and there are others for which document-oriented (or other "NoSQL") models make sense.