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I feel like we might be talking past each other -- conscious vs. unconscious bias is a complex issue worth discussing, but is only tangentially related to compl

by zorpner 10y ago

I feel like we might be talking past each other -- conscious vs. unconscious bias is a complex issue worth discussing, but is only tangentially related to complaints about political correctness, which are all demands not for free speech, but for consequence-free speech. I am also intensely pro-free speech. As a concrete example, I am in favor of the right of people to discuss their displeasure with someone's (freely!) stated views, and to use that speech to encourage organizations to not give a platform to views they find abhorrent.

toomuchtodo 10y ago
I don't think we are. My thesis is simple: everyone is biased, and we all need to tolerate each other. You can have your views, as long as your decisions are transparent when scrutinized by others to ensure your views (which others might consider abhorrent) did not come into play. You don't want to take the pitchforks from one group, and hand them to the other.
- zorpner 10y ago
  Hrm. The idea that an arbitrary decision could be scrutinized in isolation to determine the amount of bias that went into it is... optimistic at best. Realistically it's willfully naive, and practically it serves to preserve the status quo of bias in the workplace and in society. You talk pretty big ("I will protect your right to free speech to the death"!), but it's quite clear that you wont't actually defend anyone's right to free speech (unless they're discussing their own bigotry, in which case apparently we aren't permitted to freely speak against them). EDIT: A simpler way to put it might be that the decisions you make regarding whose free speech you defend are obviously colored by your own unconscious bias.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    > Realistically it's willfully naive, and practically it serves to preserve the status quo of bias in the workplace and in society. It's willfully naive to think that witch hunts will remove the bias you seek to remove.

by zorpner 10y ago

toomuchtodo 10y ago

I don't think we are. My thesis is simple: everyone is biased, and we all need to tolerate each other. You can have your views, as long as your decisions are transparent when scrutinized by others to ensure your views (which others might consider abhorrent) did not come into play. You don't want to take the pitchforks from one group, and hand them to the other.

zorpner 10y ago
Hrm. The idea that an arbitrary decision could be scrutinized in isolation to determine the amount of bias that went into it is... optimistic at best. Realistically it's willfully naive, and practically it serves to preserve the status quo of bias in the workplace and in society. You talk pretty big ("I will protect your right to free speech to the death"!), but it's quite clear that you wont't actually defend anyone's right to free speech (unless they're discussing their own bigotry, in which case apparently we aren't permitted to freely speak against them). EDIT: A simpler way to put it might be that the decisions you make regarding whose free speech you defend are obviously colored by your own unconscious bias.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  > Realistically it's willfully naive, and practically it serves to preserve the status quo of bias in the workplace and in society. It's willfully naive to think that witch hunts will remove the bias you seek to remove.