7 ms·

TLDR; To be more optimistic assess good stuff as personal, general, and permanent and negative as impersonal, specific and temporal. Make notes everyday about

by PSeitz 10y ago

TLDR; To be more optimistic assess good stuff as personal, general, and permanent and negative as impersonal, specific and temporal. Make notes everyday about your assessments and correct them. There is research backing this thesis.

dominotw 10y ago
>There is research backing this thesis. Is there a way for a layman to assess the quality of this research. I've read many assertions of research on HN on topics similar to this. eg: Meditation is supposed to help with depression(among other things) but seems like most research is extremely poor quality [1]?. 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19123875 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19123875 Most clinical trials on meditation practices are generally characterized by poor methodological quality with significant threats to validity in every major quality domain assessed. Despite a statistically significant improvement in the methodological quality over time, it is imperative that future trials on meditation be rigorous in design, execution, analysis, and the reporting of results.
- ryanobjc 10y ago
  There is a ton of research in this area and an entire field of clinical therapy called "cognitive behavioral therapy". There's literally too much to cite :-)
  - dahart 10y ago
    In that case, I'm sure there's a good survey paper and some decent places to start for interested non-experts. Googling for surveys, this was the top result: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3584580/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3584580/ (Conclusion: "In general, the evidence-base of CBT is very strong. However, additional research is needed to examine the efficacy of CBT for randomized-controlled studies.") And as much as I want to resist linking to Wikipedia, it really is a great place to find a bunch of reference material, as well as discover all the search terms you might need to know. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy
    - steveklabnik 10y ago
      See also "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy". (I am sorta-kinda a CBT skeptic, at least personally. But I know a lot of people for whom they claim it's been life-changing, and this is what they recommend.)
      - mercer 10y ago
        I've recently become a bit of a 'fan' of CBT, so I'd really like to hear some counter arguments!
  - dominotw 10y ago
    I did some googling around on the topic for past couple of hours. Seems like the jury is still out on it? This[1] article cites some research contradicting its past reliability. It seems too hard for a layman to make heads or tails of it. Let alone make recommendations to others, which seems irresponsible and dangerous to say the least. https://www.psychotherapynetworker.org/blog/details/705/is-cognitive-behavioral-therapy-as-effective-as-clinicians https://www.psychotherapynetworker.org/blog/details/705/is-c...
    - nhaliday 10y ago
      Just noting that Scott Alexander (a psychiatrist by vocation) has written some stuff on CBT http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/16/cbt-in-the-water-supply/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/16/cbt-in-the-water-supply... http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/19/scientific-freud/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/19/scientific-freud/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/13/things-that-sometimes-work-if-you-have-anxiety/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/13/things-that-sometimes-w... http://slatestarcodex.com/tag/psychiatry/ http://slatestarcodex.com/tag/psychiatry/ I only read a couple of these and that was a while ago, but one interesting (and completely unproven) idea was that CBT's effect size could progressively vanish because so many of the useful ideas are being incorporated into folk psychology. --- There's a longer post that I'd like to write about this topic in general (CBT, mindfulness, thoughtful self-help à la the OP) that I'd like to write, but that's going to take more thought. So I'm just going to throw some notes down. The conclusion I've reached is that you can take that same analytical lens you use to tackle technical topics, turn it inward, and get actual benefit for relatively little time invested. Recently I read Your Brain at Work. There were some flaws (eg, it really pushed ego depletion, which has failed to replicate), but one idea that stuck with me is that mindfulness isn't just hippie "being present" stuff. The meditative exercises can feel like that, but there's also a very analytical reflective aspect. One benefit of meditation is that it makes you more conscious of your own thought processes, which allows you to notice and stop unwanted mental processes as they arise. Some other recent essays made the point that the most important benefit of the quantified-self movement is reflection, and you should make your choices about what and how to track based on that. http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/03/24/the-holy-grail-of-self-improvement/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/03/24/the-holy-grail-of-self-... http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/04/21/a-framework-of-experimental-habit-formation/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/04/21/a-framework-of-experime... (the section Concrete Reflexivity is the most relevant) I've been working on some habits inspired by http://lesswrong.com/lw/fux/my_workflow/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/fux/my_workflow/. What I found most valuable was incorporating periodic, deliberate reflection into a daily routine with a (digital, searchable, cross-referenceable) paper trail. I realized that TODO lists weren't just useful for remembering to do things but also useful for clearing out mental static. So instead of just keeping lists for work/school, I also kept a list of more frivolous things (project ideas to flesh out, looking up peoples' opinions on some book, etc.) and would offload any distracting thoughts that came to mind during work hours to it. I'd heard somewhere that speaking to someone in the morning helps you wake up faster, so I begin practicing Duolingo in bed on important mornings, and kept track of how long it took me to get to work each day (+how much sleep I'd gotten, etc.). I'd been reading about Jonathan Haidt's theory of moral value and how a lot of human political instincts could be framed as extensions of the basic disgust instinct, so I decided to try deliberately linking distraction with uncleanliness in my mind. I don't think that was particularly helpful or harmful. But in the process I noticed that uncleanliness for me corresponds to a feeling of skin-tingling, like I hadn't showered for a day or two, and I did start having that same feeling when I was getting off-task during the day. I'm not sure any of this has made me significantly more productive, but the sense of mental control has made me calmer.
- gagagababa 10y ago
  I found Princeton's Buddhism and Modern Psychology particularly interesting [1]. You can read the course's overview to decide if it would be of any interest to you. [1] https://www.coursera.org/learn/science-of-meditation https://www.coursera.org/learn/science-of-meditation
- coldtea 10y ago
  For some such cases, it's also important for people to judge for themselves. Try something and see -- that (experiment) is even more in the original scientific spirit than relying solely on citations. It's doubly so for things in soft-sciences, where you don't even have the rigor of hard-sciences, and things can be widely cited and praised but be nothing but the ideological fashion (or academic fashion) of the decade, to be scorned a few years later.
mettamage 10y ago
I'm going to nail this on my wall almost above my bed. I'm noticing I'm not reminded by this idea enough. I remember reading the exact same thing when I read a book written by Dr. Seligman many years ago and it just clicked with my personal life experiences.
gridspy 10y ago
Also, assess others in an optimistic way also. I.e. praise: personal, general, and permanent criticism: impersonal, specific and temporal
- ItsMattyG 10y ago
  This seems to fly in direct opposition to research on growth vs. fixed mindset, which claims that praise should be impersonal, specific, and temporal in order to help people realize that they can do better based on the choices they make.
  - betenoire 10y ago
    It's not direct opposition because they aren't measuring the same ends. > in order to help people realize that they can do better vs > in order to help people feel happy (via optimism)
  - morgante 10y ago
    I think an effective compromise would be to make all feedback (positive and negative) impersonal, specific, and temporal.
  - gertef 10y ago
    "You are a hard-working person, and it will take you far in life" -- personal, general, permanent feedback that promotes a growth mindset.
tedmiston 10y ago
One thing I constantly remind myself — all events in nature are neutral. It is not on your side or against you. It's just something that has happened. How you react is what can be positive or negative.
zeveb 10y ago
The problem I see with that is what if the good things truly are impersonal, specific and/or temporal; what if the bad things truly are personal, general and/or permanent? Realistically, sometimes one must realise that one is the problem, not others or circumstances.

by PSeitz 10y ago

dominotw 10y ago

>There is research backing this thesis. Is there a way for a layman to assess the quality of this research. I've read many assertions of research on HN on topics similar to this. eg: Meditation is supposed to help with depression(among other things) but seems like most research is extremely poor quality [1]?. 1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19123875 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19123875 Most clinical trials on meditation practices are generally characterized by poor methodological quality with significant threats to validity in every major quality domain assessed. Despite a statistically significant improvement in the methodological quality over time, it is imperative that future trials on meditation be rigorous in design, execution, analysis, and the reporting of results.

ryanobjc 10y ago
There is a ton of research in this area and an entire field of clinical therapy called "cognitive behavioral therapy". There's literally too much to cite :-)
- dahart 10y ago
  In that case, I'm sure there's a good survey paper and some decent places to start for interested non-experts. Googling for surveys, this was the top result: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3584580/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3584580/ (Conclusion: "In general, the evidence-base of CBT is very strong. However, additional research is needed to examine the efficacy of CBT for randomized-controlled studies.") And as much as I want to resist linking to Wikipedia, it really is a great place to find a bunch of reference material, as well as discover all the search terms you might need to know. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy
  - steveklabnik 10y ago
    See also "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy". (I am sorta-kinda a CBT skeptic, at least personally. But I know a lot of people for whom they claim it's been life-changing, and this is what they recommend.)
    - mercer 10y ago
      I've recently become a bit of a 'fan' of CBT, so I'd really like to hear some counter arguments!
- dominotw 10y ago
  I did some googling around on the topic for past couple of hours. Seems like the jury is still out on it? This[1] article cites some research contradicting its past reliability. It seems too hard for a layman to make heads or tails of it. Let alone make recommendations to others, which seems irresponsible and dangerous to say the least. https://www.psychotherapynetworker.org/blog/details/705/is-cognitive-behavioral-therapy-as-effective-as-clinicians https://www.psychotherapynetworker.org/blog/details/705/is-c...
  - nhaliday 10y ago
    Just noting that Scott Alexander (a psychiatrist by vocation) has written some stuff on CBT http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/16/cbt-in-the-water-supply/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/16/cbt-in-the-water-supply... http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/19/scientific-freud/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/19/scientific-freud/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/13/things-that-sometimes-work-if-you-have-anxiety/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/07/13/things-that-sometimes-w... http://slatestarcodex.com/tag/psychiatry/ http://slatestarcodex.com/tag/psychiatry/ I only read a couple of these and that was a while ago, but one interesting (and completely unproven) idea was that CBT's effect size could progressively vanish because so many of the useful ideas are being incorporated into folk psychology. --- There's a longer post that I'd like to write about this topic in general (CBT, mindfulness, thoughtful self-help à la the OP) that I'd like to write, but that's going to take more thought. So I'm just going to throw some notes down. The conclusion I've reached is that you can take that same analytical lens you use to tackle technical topics, turn it inward, and get actual benefit for relatively little time invested. Recently I read Your Brain at Work. There were some flaws (eg, it really pushed ego depletion, which has failed to replicate), but one idea that stuck with me is that mindfulness isn't just hippie "being present" stuff. The meditative exercises can feel like that, but there's also a very analytical reflective aspect. One benefit of meditation is that it makes you more conscious of your own thought processes, which allows you to notice and stop unwanted mental processes as they arise. Some other recent essays made the point that the most important benefit of the quantified-self movement is reflection, and you should make your choices about what and how to track based on that. http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/03/24/the-holy-grail-of-self-improvement/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/03/24/the-holy-grail-of-self-... http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/04/21/a-framework-of-experimental-habit-formation/ http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2016/04/21/a-framework-of-experime... (the section Concrete Reflexivity is the most relevant) I've been working on some habits inspired by http://lesswrong.com/lw/fux/my_workflow/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/fux/my_workflow/. What I found most valuable was incorporating periodic, deliberate reflection into a daily routine with a (digital, searchable, cross-referenceable) paper trail. I realized that TODO lists weren't just useful for remembering to do things but also useful for clearing out mental static. So instead of just keeping lists for work/school, I also kept a list of more frivolous things (project ideas to flesh out, looking up peoples' opinions on some book, etc.) and would offload any distracting thoughts that came to mind during work hours to it. I'd heard somewhere that speaking to someone in the morning helps you wake up faster, so I begin practicing Duolingo in bed on important mornings, and kept track of how long it took me to get to work each day (+how much sleep I'd gotten, etc.). I'd been reading about Jonathan Haidt's theory of moral value and how a lot of human political instincts could be framed as extensions of the basic disgust instinct, so I decided to try deliberately linking distraction with uncleanliness in my mind. I don't think that was particularly helpful or harmful. But in the process I noticed that uncleanliness for me corresponds to a feeling of skin-tingling, like I hadn't showered for a day or two, and I did start having that same feeling when I was getting off-task during the day. I'm not sure any of this has made me significantly more productive, but the sense of mental control has made me calmer.
gagagababa 10y ago
I found Princeton's Buddhism and Modern Psychology particularly interesting [1]. You can read the course's overview to decide if it would be of any interest to you. [1] https://www.coursera.org/learn/science-of-meditation https://www.coursera.org/learn/science-of-meditation
coldtea 10y ago
For some such cases, it's also important for people to judge for themselves. Try something and see -- that (experiment) is even more in the original scientific spirit than relying solely on citations. It's doubly so for things in soft-sciences, where you don't even have the rigor of hard-sciences, and things can be widely cited and praised but be nothing but the ideological fashion (or academic fashion) of the decade, to be scorned a few years later.

mettamage 10y ago

I'm going to nail this on my wall almost above my bed. I'm noticing I'm not reminded by this idea enough. I remember reading the exact same thing when I read a book written by Dr. Seligman many years ago and it just clicked with my personal life experiences.

gridspy 10y ago

Also, assess others in an optimistic way also. I.e. praise: personal, general, and permanent criticism: impersonal, specific and temporal

ItsMattyG 10y ago
This seems to fly in direct opposition to research on growth vs. fixed mindset, which claims that praise should be impersonal, specific, and temporal in order to help people realize that they can do better based on the choices they make.
- betenoire 10y ago
  It's not direct opposition because they aren't measuring the same ends. > in order to help people realize that they can do better vs > in order to help people feel happy (via optimism)
- morgante 10y ago
  I think an effective compromise would be to make all feedback (positive and negative) impersonal, specific, and temporal.
- gertef 10y ago
  "You are a hard-working person, and it will take you far in life" -- personal, general, permanent feedback that promotes a growth mindset.

tedmiston 10y ago

One thing I constantly remind myself — all events in nature are neutral. It is not on your side or against you. It's just something that has happened. How you react is what can be positive or negative.

zeveb 10y ago

The problem I see with that is what if the good things truly are impersonal, specific and/or temporal; what if the bad things truly are personal, general and/or permanent? Realistically, sometimes one must realise that one is the problem, not others or circumstances.