8 ms·

Excerise cannot undo effects of prolonged sitting

54 points by astdb 10y ago

jseliger 10y ago
A while ago I got a sit-stand desk: http://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-stand-desk-review-two-years-with-a-motorized-desk/ http://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-stand-des... and it's been great. I'd never willingly go back to full-time sitting. Even apart from whatever health benefits accrue, switching between sitting and standing to work feels much better than sitting alone.
- enobrev 10y ago
  I recently got one as well. I haven't used it long enough to report much about health benefits, but I absolutely enjoy standing up while keeping focused. The one I found is FAR more affordable than the others with similar quality / features, even with all the bells and whistles (automated, memory settings, stylish desktop, tall enough for me at 6.6"). Only problem was that it took about 2-3 months to get here. But they were always responsive when I asked about the delivery schedule. All-in-all, it was absolutely worth the wait. https://www.autonomous.ai/smartdesk-sit-to-stand-height-adjustable-standing-desk https://www.autonomous.ai/smartdesk-sit-to-stand-height-adju... - I have nothing to do with this company except as a fan of my desk.
upofadown 10y ago
Refuting the HN headline with a quote from the article: >Last month in The Lancet, researchers tested whether any amount of exercise could ameliorate the risk of premature death that comes with sitting for eight hours a day. Their epidemiological analysis found that 60 to 75 minutes of concerted daily exercise might to the trick.
- lanius 10y ago
  Yikes. I exercise 4 hours a week which isn't nearly enough, not to mention I sit for more than 12 hours a day.
  - PeterWhittaker 10y ago
    See my other comment re the quality of this "refutation". You're doing fine (better than most) at 4 hours a week. Just sit less. Get up and move around more during the day. Consider both sitting and standing desks....
- PeterWhittaker 10y ago
  Refutes the headline? Only if you failed to RTFA. There are two critical points. Point the first, and IMHO the most important, is the rest of the paragraph that makes the "60 to 75 minutes" statement: the people weren’t necessarily healthy, just alive. In other words, the exercise was sufficient to reduce risks of mortality, but insufficient to actually improve health. That's a damning condemnation of the effects of excessive sitting if ever I've read one: Sit too long and your health is pooched, even if you exercise enough to survive. Point the second, the writer points out that exercise recommendations are a balance between what will bring the most benefit and what (most) people will actually do. Very few people will exercise 60 to 75 minutes a day... ...and I suspect that if they knew that that amount of exercise would have positive survival benefit but negligible health benefit they'd say to hell with it, and just keep sitting. Hence explicit and implicit recommendations from the article: Exercise 150 minutes a week (more if you can), sit less (a lot less).
  - upofadown 10y ago
    >the people weren’t necessarily healthy, just alive. Well, yes, when you do a study based on mortality you get a result based on mortality rate. For all we know all the other studies mentioned in the article were also based on mortality. The article was being a bit dishonest by implying that mortality rate is a bad metric without addressing the issue of why that might be so in this case. The actual point is, as you point out, that sitting is bad. The headline is still wrong and pointlessly so.
samuell 10y ago
Much the same as the main message (as I remember) of the "The Healthy Programmer" book (which you should totally read by the way ... most researched, elaborate and "balanced" (AFAIS) reading on the topic I've came across). https://pragprog.com/book/jkthp/the-healthy-programmer https://pragprog.com/book/jkthp/the-healthy-programmer
angryteabag 10y ago
For a developer without the luxury of a standing desk, what alternatives do I have?
- iwwr 10y ago
  Get one?
- mamcx 10y ago
  Makeshift one. I put two large speakers I have (similar to amazon eco) and a flat table on top of my desk. Presto! Be creative and you can build one super easy. Only need a flat table and something to cover the height.
- dunkelheit 10y ago
  Work in 30-minute intervals (these are great for achieving focus too). After an interval has elapsed, get up from your desk, relax, stretch and wander around the office a bit. Don't read HN during the break. Maybe not so hip as a standing desk but it works.
- scotu 10y ago
  If you are willing to make your own, very non fancy setup, you can have a standing station for quite cheap compared to a proper standing desk. You can use a custom made piece of wood to put on top of your current desk, use books, boxes, even soda cans :) https://www.flickr.com/photos/marcoarment/3234209861 https://www.flickr.com/photos/marcoarment/3234209861 Personally I like to alternate standing and sitting. Since this is not going to be an adjustable desk think about having a way of quickly repositioning monitor/laptop keyboard and mouse on 2 levels instead of just the standing level.
- usaphp 10y ago
  Standing desks are not luxury anymore. You can get a decent new adjustable legs for around $250, and get a table top from ikea for $40. I don't really think that it is luxury for a developer. Even if you charge $20/hour, it's only two days of your work, which I think is a very little price to pay for an improved health.
- 10y ago
grondilu 10y ago
Question : is laying worse than sitting?
- purplerabbit 10y ago
  An answer to this would be great... I'm extremely curious myself
  - grondilu 10y ago
    To be fair a quick google search points at various similar answers. Apparently, with prolonged sitting the problem is not so much the posture, as it is inactivity. Presumably lying may be slightly better as it does not stress the back. Personally I hate sitting and when I really have to I always tend to find the most laid down position possible on whatever chair I'm on.
- tbihl 10y ago
  Based on my own experience, I'd imagine that laying is hard because of the way you have to twist your neck. But, like others said, it really seems to be more about not moving around.
- naveen99 10y ago
  In this context, laying 14 hours a day in addition to sleeping ? Yes it's worse than sitting. Only thing worse would be being in zero gravity ;) Exercise, eating, laying flat when not exercising or eating all day is not worse.
  - intradasted 10y ago
    Yes it's worse Exercise, eating, laying flat when not exercising or eating all day is not worse. Wait, what?
dopu 10y ago
I dream of the day that I can program while backpacking through the Appalachians. Also, title should be fixed -- "Excerise" -> "Exercise".
- loader 10y ago
  Oh man, Wandercoding, I'm sold.
  - contingencies 10y ago
    BBIAB. Gone codeabout.
- jeffehobbs 10y ago
  Honestly, unpack: What keeps you from this?
hexagonc 10y ago
I wasn't sure from the article how specific they were about sitting. Are all types of sitting equally harmful? Does the chair matter? Does posture matter? According to the article, the primary conclusion of the health experts is that you should sit less and "move" more, where "move" means anything that "increases your metabolism 1.5 times that of being absolutely still". What about fidgeting while sitting? When working on a problem, especially when excited, I tend to bounce my legs while sitting. I wonder how much that increases my metabolism. I read somewhere that standing alone burns about 20 calories per hour. That doesn't seem like much but according to the article, this slow burn is necessary and somehow promotes heart health in a way that is not matched by sitting for an hour and then burning far more calories later.
pyre 10y ago
With all of these studies on the affects of "sitting," I'm curious if there is any distinction made between "passive sitting" and "active sitting." E.g. a yoga ball vs. a chair. If you are sitting in a position that forces you to work muscles, is that only marginally better?
- et-al 10y ago
  The study seems to focus on cardiovascular health and not so much muscular dystrophy and posture. Also, have you seen people sit on yoga balls? Most of them end up leaning on the table for support. I don't doubt sitting with good posture is helpful, but the main thrust of this study is to tell people to move. Get up every 15-20 minutes to pace, go take that walk around the block, take the stairs, walk home if you can.
lwhalen 10y ago
Eat right, exercise, achieve healthiness, die anyway. We're all food for worms, boys, and any action we take now will certainly be found (in the fullness of time) to be deleterious. It's a matter of balancing what set of regrets we can live with the most. At the end of our run we still have to give our atoms back, and the universe will continue to turn.
ben_utzer 10y ago
Excerise? Ex cerise.

54 points by astdb 10y ago

A while ago I got a sit-stand desk: http://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-stand-desk-review-two-years-with-a-motorized-desk/ http://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-stand-des... and it's been great. I'd never willingly go back to full-time sitting. Even apart from whatever health benefits accrue, switching between sitting and standing to work feels much better than sitting alone.

enobrev 10y ago
I recently got one as well. I haven't used it long enough to report much about health benefits, but I absolutely enjoy standing up while keeping focused. The one I found is FAR more affordable than the others with similar quality / features, even with all the bells and whistles (automated, memory settings, stylish desktop, tall enough for me at 6.6"). Only problem was that it took about 2-3 months to get here. But they were always responsive when I asked about the delivery schedule. All-in-all, it was absolutely worth the wait. https://www.autonomous.ai/smartdesk-sit-to-stand-height-adjustable-standing-desk https://www.autonomous.ai/smartdesk-sit-to-stand-height-adju... - I have nothing to do with this company except as a fan of my desk.

upofadown 10y ago

Refuting the HN headline with a quote from the article: >Last month in The Lancet, researchers tested whether any amount of exercise could ameliorate the risk of premature death that comes with sitting for eight hours a day. Their epidemiological analysis found that 60 to 75 minutes of concerted daily exercise might to the trick.

lanius 10y ago
Yikes. I exercise 4 hours a week which isn't nearly enough, not to mention I sit for more than 12 hours a day.
- PeterWhittaker 10y ago
  See my other comment re the quality of this "refutation". You're doing fine (better than most) at 4 hours a week. Just sit less. Get up and move around more during the day. Consider both sitting and standing desks....
PeterWhittaker 10y ago
Refutes the headline? Only if you failed to RTFA. There are two critical points. Point the first, and IMHO the most important, is the rest of the paragraph that makes the "60 to 75 minutes" statement: the people weren’t necessarily healthy, just alive. In other words, the exercise was sufficient to reduce risks of mortality, but insufficient to actually improve health. That's a damning condemnation of the effects of excessive sitting if ever I've read one: Sit too long and your health is pooched, even if you exercise enough to survive. Point the second, the writer points out that exercise recommendations are a balance between what will bring the most benefit and what (most) people will actually do. Very few people will exercise 60 to 75 minutes a day... ...and I suspect that if they knew that that amount of exercise would have positive survival benefit but negligible health benefit they'd say to hell with it, and just keep sitting. Hence explicit and implicit recommendations from the article: Exercise 150 minutes a week (more if you can), sit less (a lot less).
- upofadown 10y ago
  >the people weren’t necessarily healthy, just alive. Well, yes, when you do a study based on mortality you get a result based on mortality rate. For all we know all the other studies mentioned in the article were also based on mortality. The article was being a bit dishonest by implying that mortality rate is a bad metric without addressing the issue of why that might be so in this case. The actual point is, as you point out, that sitting is bad. The headline is still wrong and pointlessly so.

samuell 10y ago

Much the same as the main message (as I remember) of the "The Healthy Programmer" book (which you should totally read by the way ... most researched, elaborate and "balanced" (AFAIS) reading on the topic I've came across). https://pragprog.com/book/jkthp/the-healthy-programmer https://pragprog.com/book/jkthp/the-healthy-programmer

angryteabag 10y ago

For a developer without the luxury of a standing desk, what alternatives do I have?

iwwr 10y ago
Get one?
mamcx 10y ago
Makeshift one. I put two large speakers I have (similar to amazon eco) and a flat table on top of my desk. Presto! Be creative and you can build one super easy. Only need a flat table and something to cover the height.
dunkelheit 10y ago
Work in 30-minute intervals (these are great for achieving focus too). After an interval has elapsed, get up from your desk, relax, stretch and wander around the office a bit. Don't read HN during the break. Maybe not so hip as a standing desk but it works.
scotu 10y ago
If you are willing to make your own, very non fancy setup, you can have a standing station for quite cheap compared to a proper standing desk. You can use a custom made piece of wood to put on top of your current desk, use books, boxes, even soda cans :) https://www.flickr.com/photos/marcoarment/3234209861 https://www.flickr.com/photos/marcoarment/3234209861 Personally I like to alternate standing and sitting. Since this is not going to be an adjustable desk think about having a way of quickly repositioning monitor/laptop keyboard and mouse on 2 levels instead of just the standing level.
usaphp 10y ago
Standing desks are not luxury anymore. You can get a decent new adjustable legs for around $250, and get a table top from ikea for $40. I don't really think that it is luxury for a developer. Even if you charge $20/hour, it's only two days of your work, which I think is a very little price to pay for an improved health.
10y ago

grondilu 10y ago

Question : is laying worse than sitting?

purplerabbit 10y ago
An answer to this would be great... I'm extremely curious myself
- grondilu 10y ago
  To be fair a quick google search points at various similar answers. Apparently, with prolonged sitting the problem is not so much the posture, as it is inactivity. Presumably lying may be slightly better as it does not stress the back. Personally I hate sitting and when I really have to I always tend to find the most laid down position possible on whatever chair I'm on.
tbihl 10y ago
Based on my own experience, I'd imagine that laying is hard because of the way you have to twist your neck. But, like others said, it really seems to be more about not moving around.
naveen99 10y ago
In this context, laying 14 hours a day in addition to sleeping ? Yes it's worse than sitting. Only thing worse would be being in zero gravity ;) Exercise, eating, laying flat when not exercising or eating all day is not worse.
- intradasted 10y ago
  Yes it's worse Exercise, eating, laying flat when not exercising or eating all day is not worse. Wait, what?

dopu 10y ago

I dream of the day that I can program while backpacking through the Appalachians. Also, title should be fixed -- "Excerise" -> "Exercise".

loader 10y ago
Oh man, Wandercoding, I'm sold.
- contingencies 10y ago
  BBIAB. Gone codeabout.
jeffehobbs 10y ago
Honestly, unpack: What keeps you from this?

hexagonc 10y ago

I wasn't sure from the article how specific they were about sitting. Are all types of sitting equally harmful? Does the chair matter? Does posture matter? According to the article, the primary conclusion of the health experts is that you should sit less and "move" more, where "move" means anything that "increases your metabolism 1.5 times that of being absolutely still". What about fidgeting while sitting? When working on a problem, especially when excited, I tend to bounce my legs while sitting. I wonder how much that increases my metabolism. I read somewhere that standing alone burns about 20 calories per hour. That doesn't seem like much but according to the article, this slow burn is necessary and somehow promotes heart health in a way that is not matched by sitting for an hour and then burning far more calories later.

pyre 10y ago

With all of these studies on the affects of "sitting," I'm curious if there is any distinction made between "passive sitting" and "active sitting." E.g. a yoga ball vs. a chair. If you are sitting in a position that forces you to work muscles, is that only marginally better?

et-al 10y ago
The study seems to focus on cardiovascular health and not so much muscular dystrophy and posture. Also, have you seen people sit on yoga balls? Most of them end up leaning on the table for support. I don't doubt sitting with good posture is helpful, but the main thrust of this study is to tell people to move. Get up every 15-20 minutes to pace, go take that walk around the block, take the stairs, walk home if you can.

lwhalen 10y ago

Eat right, exercise, achieve healthiness, die anyway. We're all food for worms, boys, and any action we take now will certainly be found (in the fullness of time) to be deleterious. It's a matter of balancing what set of regrets we can live with the most. At the end of our run we still have to give our atoms back, and the universe will continue to turn.

ben_utzer 10y ago

Excerise? Ex cerise.