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If anyone could take the time to break down what this is about and why it's significant for those like me who are very out of the loop I'm sure we'd appreciate

If anyone could take the time to break down what this is about and why it's significant for those like me who are very out of the loop I'm sure we'd appreciate it.

zasz 10y ago
I found this Wired article: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiWnu6j5cbOAhVCxmMKHfvjC5IQFggeMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wired.com%2F2016%2F06%2Ftor-developer-jacob-appelbaum-resigns-amid-sex-abuse-claims%2F&usg=AFQjCNHQFG5mkMDPLt05o461PoHVVwTq6Q&sig2=hEH0dZmdcNv4WAznNbF6lw https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c... Basically, multiple women accused Jake Applebaum, a big shot in the Tor community, of sexually assaulting them, and his ex-girlfriend (the OP) was made into a pariah for defending him. For what it's worth, if the accusations are true, it's not improbable that he would've refrained from being an ass to his ex-girlfriend. Brock Turner, the Stanford rapist, has a female friend who wrote a moving testimony to what a great friend he was.
- TillE 10y ago
  > it's not improbable that he would've refrained from being an ass to his ex-girlfriend That's not what she says: "Still, I do have a weird feeling about many of these stories because they contain facts I know are wrong" Remember that time a couple people accused Appelbaum of sexually harrassing a woman, and then she said that's not what happened at all? Yeah. The sad thing is that I'm fairly confident that most of the stories are true. But they're mixed in with some real garbage from people who hate Jake for weird reasons, which makes them seem less credible. Awful tactics.
  - zasz 10y ago
    I'm responding to the part in her email where she said Jake was a great guy who had always treated her right.
    - gdy 10y ago
      You misrepresented it as a basis for her position.
- zorpner 10y ago
  It's a pattern. See e.g. Alison Macrina's post, in which she cites an instance prior to her own assault where Jacob Applebaum used their relationship to recruit her into defending him regarding a situation she didn't personally witness: https://medium.com/@flexlibris/theres-really-no-such-thing-as-the-voiceless-92b3fa45134d https://medium.com/@flexlibris/theres-really-no-such-thing-a...
- lawnchair_larry 10y ago
  Well that's not a very impartial summary.
  - zasz 10y ago
    It's pretty fair. Everything in that summary is a fact.
    - mejari 10y ago
      Only presenting facts doesn't make something fair. Deciding which facts to present can affect a statement's fairness.
matthewowen 10y ago
"Jake" is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum#Allegations_of_sexual_misconduct https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum#Allegations_of...
mcguire 10y ago
[Edit] Nevermind: http://jacobappelbaum.net/ http://jacobappelbaum.net/ [2nd edit] For balance: https://ourresponse.org/ https://ourresponse.org/
- exstudent2 10y ago
  That site is pure social media vigilantism. They specifically state that they don't need for him to be proven guilty in a court of law. Really bad for our industry and society to have stuff like this out there. EDIT since I'm blocked from further commenting: Not only are we as tech industry members told to believe all accusations (made by the "right" person) regardless of the lack of evidence. We are _encouraged_ to witch hunt the targets of these attacks and proactively destroy their lives. If we don't, we're labeled regressive. If we speak up and question the validity of the claims we're called all manner of X-ist labels. The courts exist for a reason, they can deal with punishing those who break the law. In most of the cases what we're seeing is fully legal activity being run through a kangaroo court of public opinion spearheaded by ideologs on social media. Scary times, but I'll continue to voice resistance on sites like this despite the inevitable wave of downvoting and semi-occasional censoring.
  - moomin 10y ago
    So if you were 90% sure (not enough to convict) a guy was going to murder someone you'd be happy with him hanging out with your friends? Of course you wouldn't, so stop using criminal law as your standard for identifying when someone's a bad hat.
    - exstudent2 10y ago
      I wouldn't create a website named after the person accusing them of things the court didn't find them guilty of. Not hanging out with someone because you don't trust them? Fine. Publicly assassinating someone's reputation with no evidence, chance for rebuttal or formal hearing? Bogus.
      - mcguire 10y ago
rezashirazian 10y ago
I am a woman, and I estimate that more than half of the Tor core people know I was dating him, or at least close to him. If Tor believed there was victims, why did no one ask if I had bad experiences with Jake? I have no idea what this is all about but it seems like high school drama and a total waste of time. If I'm missing something here I would like to be educated as well..
- linkregister 10y ago
  I think it's a good lesson about making reputation management a priority. I don't know what to think of the entire situation. But undoubtedly everyone involved and the Tor project is significantly damaged by the affair. Appelbaum either: (1) engaged in wrongdoing, or (2) let personal and professional relationships languish to the point people wanted to sabotage him. Either way, it is a good lesson to exercise caution within such a tight-knit community.
moomin 10y ago
Jake was accused of multiple cases of sexual harassment, amongst other things. Tor held an investigation and found that the allegations held up. He was very popular and high-profile, but Tor decided it was best for the project to no longer be associated with him. The rest of this is the inevitable consequence of any split of this nature. FWIW I think they did the right, and the hard, thing.
- belorn 10y ago
  According to the article here, one of the accusers was part of the group that held that investigation, determined that the allegations held up, and decided that tor should no longer be associated with him. If that is true, then really, that is one of the more devious uses of "anonymous" accusation followed by an "independent" investigation and "impartial" decision that I have ever seen. Would it be socially accepted if it was publicly known that the same person was an accuser, a investigator and a judge at the same time?
throwaway6549 10y ago
TOR developer gets accused of being a rapist in order to kick him out. Is he really a rapist or is this just the same playbook used against Assange and warned of by ESR? Regardless, there's nothing but he said/she said and tons of anonymous slander (on the accusing side).
bleublanche 10y ago
One of Jake's girlfriends is quitting Tor because people don't like her so much because she's supporting a rapist. She's also likely been behind the recent media smear against the victim. To be clear, it's rape.

If anyone could take the time to break down what this is about and why it's significant for those like me who are very out of the loop I'm sure we'd appreciate it.

zasz 10y ago

I found this Wired article: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiWnu6j5cbOAhVCxmMKHfvjC5IQFggeMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wired.com%2F2016%2F06%2Ftor-developer-jacob-appelbaum-resigns-amid-sex-abuse-claims%2F&usg=AFQjCNHQFG5mkMDPLt05o461PoHVVwTq6Q&sig2=hEH0dZmdcNv4WAznNbF6lw https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c... Basically, multiple women accused Jake Applebaum, a big shot in the Tor community, of sexually assaulting them, and his ex-girlfriend (the OP) was made into a pariah for defending him. For what it's worth, if the accusations are true, it's not improbable that he would've refrained from being an ass to his ex-girlfriend. Brock Turner, the Stanford rapist, has a female friend who wrote a moving testimony to what a great friend he was.

TillE 10y ago
> it's not improbable that he would've refrained from being an ass to his ex-girlfriend That's not what she says: "Still, I do have a weird feeling about many of these stories because they contain facts I know are wrong" Remember that time a couple people accused Appelbaum of sexually harrassing a woman, and then she said that's not what happened at all? Yeah. The sad thing is that I'm fairly confident that most of the stories are true. But they're mixed in with some real garbage from people who hate Jake for weird reasons, which makes them seem less credible. Awful tactics.
- zasz 10y ago
  I'm responding to the part in her email where she said Jake was a great guy who had always treated her right.
  - gdy 10y ago
    You misrepresented it as a basis for her position.
zorpner 10y ago
It's a pattern. See e.g. Alison Macrina's post, in which she cites an instance prior to her own assault where Jacob Applebaum used their relationship to recruit her into defending him regarding a situation she didn't personally witness: https://medium.com/@flexlibris/theres-really-no-such-thing-as-the-voiceless-92b3fa45134d https://medium.com/@flexlibris/theres-really-no-such-thing-a...
lawnchair_larry 10y ago
Well that's not a very impartial summary.
- zasz 10y ago
  It's pretty fair. Everything in that summary is a fact.
  - mejari 10y ago
    Only presenting facts doesn't make something fair. Deciding which facts to present can affect a statement's fairness.

matthewowen 10y ago

"Jake" is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum#Allegations_of_sexual_misconduct https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Appelbaum#Allegations_of...

mcguire 10y ago

[Edit] Nevermind: http://jacobappelbaum.net/ http://jacobappelbaum.net/ [2nd edit] For balance: https://ourresponse.org/ https://ourresponse.org/

exstudent2 10y ago
That site is pure social media vigilantism. They specifically state that they don't need for him to be proven guilty in a court of law. Really bad for our industry and society to have stuff like this out there. EDIT since I'm blocked from further commenting: Not only are we as tech industry members told to believe all accusations (made by the "right" person) regardless of the lack of evidence. We are _encouraged_ to witch hunt the targets of these attacks and proactively destroy their lives. If we don't, we're labeled regressive. If we speak up and question the validity of the claims we're called all manner of X-ist labels. The courts exist for a reason, they can deal with punishing those who break the law. In most of the cases what we're seeing is fully legal activity being run through a kangaroo court of public opinion spearheaded by ideologs on social media. Scary times, but I'll continue to voice resistance on sites like this despite the inevitable wave of downvoting and semi-occasional censoring.
- moomin 10y ago
  So if you were 90% sure (not enough to convict) a guy was going to murder someone you'd be happy with him hanging out with your friends? Of course you wouldn't, so stop using criminal law as your standard for identifying when someone's a bad hat.
  - exstudent2 10y ago
    I wouldn't create a website named after the person accusing them of things the court didn't find them guilty of. Not hanging out with someone because you don't trust them? Fine. Publicly assassinating someone's reputation with no evidence, chance for rebuttal or formal hearing? Bogus.
    - mcguire 10y ago

rezashirazian 10y ago

I am a woman, and I estimate that more than half of the Tor core people know I was dating him, or at least close to him. If Tor believed there was victims, why did no one ask if I had bad experiences with Jake? I have no idea what this is all about but it seems like high school drama and a total waste of time. If I'm missing something here I would like to be educated as well..

linkregister 10y ago
I think it's a good lesson about making reputation management a priority. I don't know what to think of the entire situation. But undoubtedly everyone involved and the Tor project is significantly damaged by the affair. Appelbaum either: (1) engaged in wrongdoing, or (2) let personal and professional relationships languish to the point people wanted to sabotage him. Either way, it is a good lesson to exercise caution within such a tight-knit community.

moomin 10y ago

Jake was accused of multiple cases of sexual harassment, amongst other things. Tor held an investigation and found that the allegations held up. He was very popular and high-profile, but Tor decided it was best for the project to no longer be associated with him. The rest of this is the inevitable consequence of any split of this nature. FWIW I think they did the right, and the hard, thing.

belorn 10y ago
According to the article here, one of the accusers was part of the group that held that investigation, determined that the allegations held up, and decided that tor should no longer be associated with him. If that is true, then really, that is one of the more devious uses of "anonymous" accusation followed by an "independent" investigation and "impartial" decision that I have ever seen. Would it be socially accepted if it was publicly known that the same person was an accuser, a investigator and a judge at the same time?

throwaway6549 10y ago

TOR developer gets accused of being a rapist in order to kick him out. Is he really a rapist or is this just the same playbook used against Assange and warned of by ESR? Regardless, there's nothing but he said/she said and tons of anonymous slander (on the accusing side).

bleublanche 10y ago

One of Jake's girlfriends is quitting Tor because people don't like her so much because she's supporting a rapist. She's also likely been behind the recent media smear against the victim. To be clear, it's rape.