4 ms·

> Any Canadian developer will tell you the problem is the abysmal pay that Canadian companies offer. Companies can't pay money they don't have. In my experienc

by sdm 10y ago

> Any Canadian developer will tell you the problem is the abysmal pay that Canadian companies offer. Companies can't pay money they don't have. In my experience as a Canadian founder, Canadian companies are just poorer. We'd love to pay more but then we'd be bankrupt.

yazaddaruvala 10y ago
I think this is part of the joke. Most US "companies" which hire tech talent, aren't looking to scale up "businesses" which are cashflow positive. These "startups" are effectively bankrupt relying entirely on their current runways and their bi-annual VC injections. Like they said in the video, Canadians for better or worse are inherently more risk averse than their American counter parts. Even more appropriately the entrepreneurs which stay in Canada vs move on faith to the bay, are tautologically less risk averse. To look at this from a different perspective, Canada may just be living with a sustainable tech sector. Its like watching/envying your neighbors as they come home from their third sunny vacation, this year, to their over sized house and driveway with two Mercedes. But that envy would quickly disappear if you ever got a chance to look at their books. You'd see they just took out a second mortgage on the house, when they could barely pay for the first one, so they could continue to finance their cars. Meanwhile, they still have so much additional debt accruing it really should be criminal. I really wouldn't know though.. I'm a risk averse Canadian, whose just sorta hoping I've found a sweet spot on the risk-reward line.
- thedufer 10y ago
  A large portion of the high wages are coming out of sustainable companies, so I don't think you can blame this on startups. Netflix, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, etc. are all outpaying Canada's tech sector by huge margins yet somehow make a profit.
  - yazaddaruvala 10y ago
    Yeah, don't get me wrong I also prefer to not be living in a bubble. Hopefully everything continues as is.
csdreamer7 10y ago
Are not most of your customers (at least for tech companies) in the US? Wouldn't the weak Canadian dollar help you in that respect? I understand taxes are higher in Canada, but in the US most tech companies have to contribute to medical insurance.
- sdm 10y ago
  In our case, most of our customers are not in the US. But, with the exception of local customers and and customers that have Canadian subsidiaries (we deal mainly with enterprise customers) -- most customers pay in USD. If you're a large US tech company looking to near-shore, the low dollar is great; but, not so much if you're a local company. * Our non-salary expenses are largely paid in USD (hosting, cloud services, etc) * Developer salaries are in a global-ish market and we've seen salaries shoot up greatly because of the falling dollar to compete the falling purchasing power of the CAD * Large US companies opening up local development offices further driving the * Revenues lag the costs of salaries and other services -- we have to pay our staff, hosting, cloud services before we receive revenue. Of course, this is always the case, but with the falling dollar you feel it more, especially in the case of salaries In short, this is not manufacturing where your inputs and salaries are largely localized. At best the falling dollar is a push and at worst it's a negative impact. Really, it's currency volatility that is more the issue, if it would stabilize and stay that way for a few years, it would make planning and adapting much easier. This year alone, we've seen 0.68 dollar and a 0.79 dollar. Add to this: * The general "Canadian Discount" US VC give to Canadian companies and the stinginess of Canadian VC * The SRED roulette -- it's not really free money as described, you have to spend it then pray the government will give you the tax credits. In my experience what's decided as SRED-able can really depend on who the reviewer is, it's more of a lottery than anything else unless you can dedicate someone basically full time maintaining SRED records. Also, you can't pay for salaries and services with tax credits -- they only help for the next year if you have profits. Actually, corporate taxes are lower for a Canadian Controlled Corporation than the equivalent US company, but that doesn't really factor into things like salaries. Taxes are on profits and salaries are before profits. Also, most Canadian companies, especially in the tech sector, also have to contribute to medical insurance. You're going to have a hard time recruiting without extended health care benefits. All that said, I am positive on running a company here. Just would like less uncertainty in terms of exchange rates.
serge2k 10y ago
I get that, but I'm tired of the excuses when everyone knows the real reason why talent is hard to get.

by sdm 10y ago

yazaddaruvala 10y ago

I think this is part of the joke. Most US "companies" which hire tech talent, aren't looking to scale up "businesses" which are cashflow positive. These "startups" are effectively bankrupt relying entirely on their current runways and their bi-annual VC injections. Like they said in the video, Canadians for better or worse are inherently more risk averse than their American counter parts. Even more appropriately the entrepreneurs which stay in Canada vs move on faith to the bay, are tautologically less risk averse. To look at this from a different perspective, Canada may just be living with a sustainable tech sector. Its like watching/envying your neighbors as they come home from their third sunny vacation, this year, to their over sized house and driveway with two Mercedes. But that envy would quickly disappear if you ever got a chance to look at their books. You'd see they just took out a second mortgage on the house, when they could barely pay for the first one, so they could continue to finance their cars. Meanwhile, they still have so much additional debt accruing it really should be criminal. I really wouldn't know though.. I'm a risk averse Canadian, whose just sorta hoping I've found a sweet spot on the risk-reward line.

thedufer 10y ago
A large portion of the high wages are coming out of sustainable companies, so I don't think you can blame this on startups. Netflix, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, etc. are all outpaying Canada's tech sector by huge margins yet somehow make a profit.
- yazaddaruvala 10y ago
  Yeah, don't get me wrong I also prefer to not be living in a bubble. Hopefully everything continues as is.

csdreamer7 10y ago

Are not most of your customers (at least for tech companies) in the US? Wouldn't the weak Canadian dollar help you in that respect? I understand taxes are higher in Canada, but in the US most tech companies have to contribute to medical insurance.

sdm 10y ago
In our case, most of our customers are not in the US. But, with the exception of local customers and and customers that have Canadian subsidiaries (we deal mainly with enterprise customers) -- most customers pay in USD. If you're a large US tech company looking to near-shore, the low dollar is great; but, not so much if you're a local company. * Our non-salary expenses are largely paid in USD (hosting, cloud services, etc) * Developer salaries are in a global-ish market and we've seen salaries shoot up greatly because of the falling dollar to compete the falling purchasing power of the CAD * Large US companies opening up local development offices further driving the * Revenues lag the costs of salaries and other services -- we have to pay our staff, hosting, cloud services before we receive revenue. Of course, this is always the case, but with the falling dollar you feel it more, especially in the case of salaries In short, this is not manufacturing where your inputs and salaries are largely localized. At best the falling dollar is a push and at worst it's a negative impact. Really, it's currency volatility that is more the issue, if it would stabilize and stay that way for a few years, it would make planning and adapting much easier. This year alone, we've seen 0.68 dollar and a 0.79 dollar. Add to this: * The general "Canadian Discount" US VC give to Canadian companies and the stinginess of Canadian VC * The SRED roulette -- it's not really free money as described, you have to spend it then pray the government will give you the tax credits. In my experience what's decided as SRED-able can really depend on who the reviewer is, it's more of a lottery than anything else unless you can dedicate someone basically full time maintaining SRED records. Also, you can't pay for salaries and services with tax credits -- they only help for the next year if you have profits. Actually, corporate taxes are lower for a Canadian Controlled Corporation than the equivalent US company, but that doesn't really factor into things like salaries. Taxes are on profits and salaries are before profits. Also, most Canadian companies, especially in the tech sector, also have to contribute to medical insurance. You're going to have a hard time recruiting without extended health care benefits. All that said, I am positive on running a company here. Just would like less uncertainty in terms of exchange rates.

serge2k 10y ago

I get that, but I'm tired of the excuses when everyone knows the real reason why talent is hard to get.