6 ms·

This is very interesting to me, because the median rent in Seattle just crossed $2K while the median condo price just reached $410K. Since you said your ignorin

This is very interesting to me, because the median rent in Seattle just crossed $2K while the median condo price just reached $410K. Since you said your ignoring all the extras and just talking about payments after 20% down - that means with the current median 3.28% interest rate in Washington for 30 YR loan you would only be paying $1,433 a month way lower. Sounds like either your math is bad or you just have a good deal :)

burger_moon 10y ago
Typically HOA fees don't exist in rentals where as in condos that's an extra fee you're paying every month in addition to your mortgage. The $400k condo is going to have a substantial HOA fee. I only have knowledge of my local area, but for condos around the $200k price range here have HOA fees around $500/mo. That would put him right back at a wash for monthly price if they didn't put any down payment on the condo.
- douche 10y ago
  $500 a month to an organization that tells you all the things that you can't do with your own property? That is absurd.
  - sokoloff 10y ago
    I agree (which is why I live in a single-family), but to be fair, the HOA/condo fee also typically pays for things like the outside maintenance, snow removal, common area maintenance, roof, painting, landscaping, pool/tennis court/gym/what-have-you, trash removal, insurance and other expenses relating to the shared/public areas.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - massysett 10y ago
    The value in that is that they also tell your neighbors what they can't do with their property.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    For some condominiums (especially apartment-style, many-units-in-one-building condos), HOA fees often largely go to maintaining common areas and shared structure. This is often less true with detached, single-family homes with HOAs.
- timothycrosley 10y ago
  Great point! Just looked it up and the last information I could find showed just below $500 as the average HOA in Seattle. In theory based on the original guidelines you still end up ahead - but it's very close. I recently bought a SFH in Seattle and it ended up way in my favor over renting for things people choose not to include in the other direction (having to pay for parking, having to pay per pet, etc)
- devonkim 10y ago
  Depending upon how well / poorly managed the HOA is, HOA fees for $200k condos can easily exceed $500 / mo. The condo I sold for a substantial loss in the Seattle area in 2010 at $175k had a $280 / mo HOA due for a pretty terrible set of amenities due to a lawsuit that was eating up all the funds. As the HOA dues go up, it can further suppress gains. Then comes some special assessments like new roofs. As such, I consider HOA dues not too dissimilar of a hit on an investment like expense ratios / management fees in a fund, except I've heard of few HOAs that could improve your property value the more money you paid in unlike something like a unicorn actively managed fund.
jandrewrogers 10y ago
You are making many improper assumptions. My case is not "median", the distribution of rents and prices are often not the same, and the relationship between rent and price can vary significantly between locations within Seattle at any particular point on those distributions. The breakeven mortgage based on my rent by my best calculation would be around $700k, depending on a number of factors. For better or worse, places like I rent sell for much more than that. Having been looking at condos all over Seattle, the relationship between price and rent vary significantly by location.
- timothycrosley 10y ago
  Your right I'm making assumptions in your favor, it just so happens the size of places people buy tend to be much larger then the ones they rent. In fact it's hard to even find many 2 bedroom rooms for rent in Seattle while they are the norm for condos. As someone who's recently bought in Seattle I've looked in most of the in demand areas (Fremont, Ballard, Capital Hill, Green Lake, Wallingford, Revenna, and Belltown) - and across the board it's significantly cheaper based on your guidelines to buy. So unless your talking about the same exact building - or maybe only new building I would be very surprised to find out otherwise. (

burger_moon 10y ago

Typically HOA fees don't exist in rentals where as in condos that's an extra fee you're paying every month in addition to your mortgage. The $400k condo is going to have a substantial HOA fee. I only have knowledge of my local area, but for condos around the $200k price range here have HOA fees around $500/mo. That would put him right back at a wash for monthly price if they didn't put any down payment on the condo.

douche 10y ago
$500 a month to an organization that tells you all the things that you can't do with your own property? That is absurd.
- sokoloff 10y ago
  I agree (which is why I live in a single-family), but to be fair, the HOA/condo fee also typically pays for things like the outside maintenance, snow removal, common area maintenance, roof, painting, landscaping, pool/tennis court/gym/what-have-you, trash removal, insurance and other expenses relating to the shared/public areas.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- massysett 10y ago
  The value in that is that they also tell your neighbors what they can't do with their property.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  For some condominiums (especially apartment-style, many-units-in-one-building condos), HOA fees often largely go to maintaining common areas and shared structure. This is often less true with detached, single-family homes with HOAs.
timothycrosley 10y ago
Great point! Just looked it up and the last information I could find showed just below $500 as the average HOA in Seattle. In theory based on the original guidelines you still end up ahead - but it's very close. I recently bought a SFH in Seattle and it ended up way in my favor over renting for things people choose not to include in the other direction (having to pay for parking, having to pay per pet, etc)
devonkim 10y ago
Depending upon how well / poorly managed the HOA is, HOA fees for $200k condos can easily exceed $500 / mo. The condo I sold for a substantial loss in the Seattle area in 2010 at $175k had a $280 / mo HOA due for a pretty terrible set of amenities due to a lawsuit that was eating up all the funds. As the HOA dues go up, it can further suppress gains. Then comes some special assessments like new roofs. As such, I consider HOA dues not too dissimilar of a hit on an investment like expense ratios / management fees in a fund, except I've heard of few HOAs that could improve your property value the more money you paid in unlike something like a unicorn actively managed fund.

jandrewrogers 10y ago

You are making many improper assumptions. My case is not "median", the distribution of rents and prices are often not the same, and the relationship between rent and price can vary significantly between locations within Seattle at any particular point on those distributions. The breakeven mortgage based on my rent by my best calculation would be around $700k, depending on a number of factors. For better or worse, places like I rent sell for much more than that. Having been looking at condos all over Seattle, the relationship between price and rent vary significantly by location.

timothycrosley 10y ago
Your right I'm making assumptions in your favor, it just so happens the size of places people buy tend to be much larger then the ones they rent. In fact it's hard to even find many 2 bedroom rooms for rent in Seattle while they are the norm for condos. As someone who's recently bought in Seattle I've looked in most of the in demand areas (Fremont, Ballard, Capital Hill, Green Lake, Wallingford, Revenna, and Belltown) - and across the board it's significantly cheaper based on your guidelines to buy. So unless your talking about the same exact building - or maybe only new building I would be very surprised to find out otherwise. (