6 ms·

Maybe it's just me but I'm more tempted to trust engineers who's day-to-day job is engineering rather then a Youtuber who replaces vowels with letters. But str

Maybe it's just me but I'm more tempted to trust engineers who's day-to-day job is engineering rather then a Youtuber who replaces vowels with letters. But strawman/direct attacks aside. In my experience when one engineer is disagreeing with a team of engineers, they're wrong or the team a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem they're working to solve.

throw1291121 10y ago
What about the guy who warned about the space shuttle's O-rings? And that is an example from a conservative environment. Now take startups that just want VC money with no intention of producing a product, a team of engineers that likes their salaries and you'll get a fake consensus very easily.
- Bjartr 10y ago
  That was one engineer disagreeing with a team of managers.
jshevek 10y ago
> I'm more tempted to trust engineers who's day-to-day job is engineering rather then a Youtuber who ... Even if those engineers clearly have a financial incentive to make biased claims?
- valarauca1 10y ago
  I mean if we toss around incentived claims then you can't trust literally anyone in a capitalist society. Since they can be incentived to lie to you, and you have to do due diligence to prove they aren't before trusting them. This defense is the home of conspiracy theorists and crazy people. If you are really concerned with this why are you posting on a forum literally owned by a SV Billionaire? Buts let's pretend you are rational. How does a master in chemistry grant you knowledge of mechanical, structural, and fluid engineering. If you say they're both Math/STEM fields, then why aren't chemistry professors, and comsologist certified electricians? It's related by the same logic.
  - jshevek 10y ago
    > I mean if we toss around incentived claims then you can't trust literally anyone in a capitalist society. Only if you fall prey to logical fallacies. Noting that not all engineers are motivated to be maximally honest doesn't require that you completely mistrust literally everyone. False dilemma. > If you are really concerned with this What is it, exactly, that you think I'm concerned about? And how concerned do you think I am? I can't help you with your chemistry/STEM straw man.
    - valarauca1 10y ago
      >I can't help you with your chemistry/STEM straw man. How is this a strawman? Because it is literally the crux of your argument that a masters of chemistry is an expert on structural engineering and fluid dynamics?
      - jshevek 10y ago
        I've made no such claim, and have no idea why it is that you think that I did.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
computerex 10y ago
Thunderf00t isn't just some average Joe on the street. The guy has a PhD in chemistry and has dedicated a decade to educate the world at large about matters of science and intellectualism. The world would be a better place if we had more Thunderf00ts on YouTube. His videos on the hyperloop are pretty comprehensive and succinct about their reasoning. Why not watch them instead of mindlessly repeating the same strawman argument that every other Elon Musk fanboy/fangirl left on his videos? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDwe2M-LDZQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDwe2M-LDZQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk
- jshevek 10y ago
  Thunderf00t isn't just getting hate from people who take their (otherwise understandable) admiration of Elon Musk too far, Thunderf00t is also getting hate from those who are deeply invested in 3rd wave feminist ideology.
- mdorazio 10y ago
  How does a PhD in chemistry make you an expert in mechanical engineering and fluid dynamics?
  - jshevek 10y ago
    "Expert" is a vague term, but the parent didn't claim that it did. Do you think that one needs to be an 'expert' (whatever that means) in mechanical engineering and fluid dynamics to make meaningful criticism of a project like this?
    - argonaut 10y ago
      Yes. (for technical criticism)
      - jshevek 10y ago
        I hope you don't take that to such an extreme as to think that every line item of criticism in which Thunderf00t applied general science principles to the hyperloop paper under discussion is invalid due to a lack of sufficient technical expertise. Right? Surely Thunderf00t is qualified to make some of the criticism he made? I would agree that there are likely a few areas in which his criticism exceeded his understanding, though I have yet to read a criticism of his criticism that doesn't mis-represent his claims. I still don't see the specific relevance of mdorazio's comment to computerex's.
dredmorbius 10y ago
Thunderf00t's no more credible than your average space-alien-cat in a mask. Phil Mason, PhD in chemistry, and work in nutrition, physics, and nuclear physics, with 34 published papers to his credit, now he's one sassy frood. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Mason https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Mason
- computerex 10y ago
  Are you trolling? I guess you don't know how much dedication and effort it takes to earn a good PhD. A PhD in STEM teaches you how to be a good scientist, how to think about problems and how to conduct research. These skills are very useful in pretty much every discipline imaginable. Not to mention the fact that a PhD in chemistry warrants a very heavy mathematical/physics background. If you honestly think that Thunderf00t has the same credibility as some average Joe on the street about Hyperloop/physics/engineering, you must have a very religious background.
  - jshevek 10y ago
    I think he's just having fun being irreverent and silly. Within the larger academic community Thunderf00t isn't some intellectual titan, he's just yet another guy with a PhD. From an academic perspective, I'd think that having a strong youtube following is like being king of the rats. However, I would absolutely agree with you that Thunderf00t is adequately qualified to make most of the criticism that he has made in a variety of his debunking videos. Thunderf00t is doing our culture a valuable service by debunking that ridiculous re-breather apparatus, 'solar freakin roadways', and the allegedly endless water bottle. Its sad that people are so ignorant of basic science that they are taken in by this snake oil.

throw1291121 10y ago

What about the guy who warned about the space shuttle's O-rings? And that is an example from a conservative environment. Now take startups that just want VC money with no intention of producing a product, a team of engineers that likes their salaries and you'll get a fake consensus very easily.

Bjartr 10y ago
That was one engineer disagreeing with a team of managers.

jshevek 10y ago

> I'm more tempted to trust engineers who's day-to-day job is engineering rather then a Youtuber who ... Even if those engineers clearly have a financial incentive to make biased claims?

valarauca1 10y ago
I mean if we toss around incentived claims then you can't trust literally anyone in a capitalist society. Since they can be incentived to lie to you, and you have to do due diligence to prove they aren't before trusting them. This defense is the home of conspiracy theorists and crazy people. If you are really concerned with this why are you posting on a forum literally owned by a SV Billionaire? Buts let's pretend you are rational. How does a master in chemistry grant you knowledge of mechanical, structural, and fluid engineering. If you say they're both Math/STEM fields, then why aren't chemistry professors, and comsologist certified electricians? It's related by the same logic.
- jshevek 10y ago
  > I mean if we toss around incentived claims then you can't trust literally anyone in a capitalist society. Only if you fall prey to logical fallacies. Noting that not all engineers are motivated to be maximally honest doesn't require that you completely mistrust literally everyone. False dilemma. > If you are really concerned with this What is it, exactly, that you think I'm concerned about? And how concerned do you think I am? I can't help you with your chemistry/STEM straw man.
  - valarauca1 10y ago
    >I can't help you with your chemistry/STEM straw man. How is this a strawman? Because it is literally the crux of your argument that a masters of chemistry is an expert on structural engineering and fluid dynamics?
    - jshevek 10y ago
      I've made no such claim, and have no idea why it is that you think that I did.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

computerex 10y ago

Thunderf00t isn't just some average Joe on the street. The guy has a PhD in chemistry and has dedicated a decade to educate the world at large about matters of science and intellectualism. The world would be a better place if we had more Thunderf00ts on YouTube. His videos on the hyperloop are pretty comprehensive and succinct about their reasoning. Why not watch them instead of mindlessly repeating the same strawman argument that every other Elon Musk fanboy/fangirl left on his videos? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDwe2M-LDZQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDwe2M-LDZQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk

jshevek 10y ago
Thunderf00t isn't just getting hate from people who take their (otherwise understandable) admiration of Elon Musk too far, Thunderf00t is also getting hate from those who are deeply invested in 3rd wave feminist ideology.
mdorazio 10y ago
How does a PhD in chemistry make you an expert in mechanical engineering and fluid dynamics?
- jshevek 10y ago
  "Expert" is a vague term, but the parent didn't claim that it did. Do you think that one needs to be an 'expert' (whatever that means) in mechanical engineering and fluid dynamics to make meaningful criticism of a project like this?
  - argonaut 10y ago
    Yes. (for technical criticism)
    - jshevek 10y ago
      I hope you don't take that to such an extreme as to think that every line item of criticism in which Thunderf00t applied general science principles to the hyperloop paper under discussion is invalid due to a lack of sufficient technical expertise. Right? Surely Thunderf00t is qualified to make some of the criticism he made? I would agree that there are likely a few areas in which his criticism exceeded his understanding, though I have yet to read a criticism of his criticism that doesn't mis-represent his claims. I still don't see the specific relevance of mdorazio's comment to computerex's.

dredmorbius 10y ago

Thunderf00t's no more credible than your average space-alien-cat in a mask. Phil Mason, PhD in chemistry, and work in nutrition, physics, and nuclear physics, with 34 published papers to his credit, now he's one sassy frood. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Mason https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Mason

computerex 10y ago
Are you trolling? I guess you don't know how much dedication and effort it takes to earn a good PhD. A PhD in STEM teaches you how to be a good scientist, how to think about problems and how to conduct research. These skills are very useful in pretty much every discipline imaginable. Not to mention the fact that a PhD in chemistry warrants a very heavy mathematical/physics background. If you honestly think that Thunderf00t has the same credibility as some average Joe on the street about Hyperloop/physics/engineering, you must have a very religious background.
- jshevek 10y ago
  I think he's just having fun being irreverent and silly. Within the larger academic community Thunderf00t isn't some intellectual titan, he's just yet another guy with a PhD. From an academic perspective, I'd think that having a strong youtube following is like being king of the rats. However, I would absolutely agree with you that Thunderf00t is adequately qualified to make most of the criticism that he has made in a variety of his debunking videos. Thunderf00t is doing our culture a valuable service by debunking that ridiculous re-breather apparatus, 'solar freakin roadways', and the allegedly endless water bottle. Its sad that people are so ignorant of basic science that they are taken in by this snake oil.