6 ms·

Just out of curiosity, what are the issues it has?

by Vexs 10y ago

kennell 10y ago
The video he is refering to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk
- thringsaround 10y ago
  I know it's a sensitive subject for HN, but I'll go ahead and encourage folks not to watch that video, at least without taking a look at some of the other popular videos on that channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmb8hO2ilV9vRa8cilis88A https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmb8hO2ilV9vRa8cilis88A) and making an informed decision. To be clear, since technical expertise and regressive politics are not necessarily mutually exclusive, I'm not saying that you shouldn't watch it-- just that you might not want to.
  - jshevek 10y ago
    What could be more regressive than ignoring one side of an engineering debate because that speaker doesn't agree with your politics?
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - thringsaround 10y ago
      Snarky reply replaced: I'm sincerely curious if that's really all you're taking away from my comment, including the explicit disclaimer. My advice was to pay closer attention to the material, not to ignore it, so I'm perplexed as to how you managed to get the complete opposite message. This seems exceptionally straightforward to me, so I'll make it as un-political as I can: There are lifetimes of new content available for your consumption every single day. Maybe it's not all worthwhile. Maybe not 1% of it is. It doesn't matter-- you'll never get to see an infinitesimal fraction of it, even just the good, true, accurate stuff. So how do you decide what to pay attention to with your mortal lifespan? Just as a first pass, I like to use filters like "is this notably excellent" or "does this make me want to throw up at all, even just a little". Then if it's not excellent, or if the speaker doesn't agree with my politics, or especially both, I don't feel any remorse whatsoever about skipping it. This isn't about shutting myself off. I think it's very important to expose myself to perspectives that differ from my own, to broaden my own frame of reference. I also think that feces play a critically important role in my metabolism, but that doesn't mean I'm excited to open a box of donuts and discover a frosted turd. And I'll accept exactly 0 concern trolling around my publicly saying, just, hey... look in the box. If it's a turd in there, you don't still have to eat it.
      - jshevek 10y ago
        > if that's really all you're taking away I'm not commenting on everything, just the things I think are the most important. I can't read your mind, but in your own words you "encourage folks not to watch that video at least without..." Just my impression, but it appears to me that you aren't even trying to contribute to the actual topics of discussion in any meaningful way.
        thringsaround 10y ago
        > but in your own words you "encourage folks not to watch that video at least without..." Trying really hard not to get back on snark here, but... did you literally just stop reading there? Just finish my sentence: I "encourage folks not to watch that video, at least without [...] making an informed decision." So, do you think folks shouldn't make an informed decision, or do you think my decision is wrong? Just my impression, but it appears that you might be arguing one as a proxy for another.
        kd0amg 10y ago
        So... watch several of his other videos and then decide whether to watch this one? And that's to save time spent on consuming non-worthwhile content? You could stand to be a lot more specific about what your beef is with this youtuber and how that links back to the arguments given in this video.
        thringsaround 10y ago
        No. Just go to the channel, read the titles of some of the other videos, and then either walk away, or not, for your own reasons, or not. Or don't, if that really seems so hard. Again, weirded out that this is such a burdensome ask for some of you. Like, I'm not even talking about my politics, just pointing out that my politics exist.
        kd0amg 10y ago
        You're also refusing to explain what they are or why they're relevant to this video.
    - thringsaround 10y ago
      Things have calmed down a bit, so I'll just double down on this before I go: Do you even hear yourself when you talk? "What could be more regressive?" Um, how about deporting children? How about mandatory minimums in drug sentencing? How about forced pregnancy to death? How about racial gerrymandering? How about, jesus, any actually regressive policy? No, when it starts interrupting low-fi YouTube debates about hypothetical public transit infrastructure, that is when the tyranny of the majority has gone too far! Wow. Honestly, I don't even care if you or anyone wants to use HN to score a few points in Gatorade's famously unpopular ARG. But you know, people do read this stuff, and the public already has a very low opinion of technical folks' political aptitude, so when you say something outright absurd like that it reflects poorly on all of us. Anyway, there's my "politics", hope you like them <3
  - Ralfp 10y ago
    Poisoning the well, are we? Tunderf00t's youtube channel may seem to be a product of complete lunatic, but is actually an result of years of antagonisation between members of the community that used to be very close but underwent falling out due to internal agendas and opinions on what their community actually should be.
    - jshevek 10y ago
      Yes, in my opinion the parent is trying to poison the well while saying "I'm not poisoning the well", then saying "How dare you suggest I'm poisoning the well when I actually said I wasn't poisoning the well".
    - thringsaround 10y ago
      If I were discrediting the channel as a means to discredit the video or its content, that might be poisoning the well. But the content is (god, I hope) not at issue. Discrediting the channel on its own merits is more of a "hey look, poison!" Anyway. I'm comfortable that a reasonable person can page through YouTube, Google some names, and determine that no sort of reciprocity is going on here. If they care. The revisionism is annoying, but fortunately the "community" to which you refer is structured around providing "context" that, to dispassionate observers, merely proves the point.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        > If I were discrediting the channel as a means to discredit the video or its content If that's not your intent, you're just making personal attacks on the creator as a complete non-sequitur to the thread, which is even more of an inappropriate abuse of the HN audience than well-poisoning would be.
        thringsaround 10y ago
        You're getting out of bounds. If you think my comments here are irrelevant or abusive, please report them to a moderator and desist replying. Otherwise, I'm here to talk if you are.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    If you want to make an argument as to why people shouldn't watch the video, please do so in a more direct manner. You seem to be making an ad hominem argument without even bothering to explain what specific ill the target is guilty of (beyond vague "regressive politics".)
    - thringsaround 10y ago
      I have made, and am still making, no such argument, at considerable length, in this very thread. You are more than encouraged to join other commenters in vigorously protesting and debating my non-argument :)

Just out of curiosity, what are the issues it has?

by Vexs 10y ago

Just out of curiosity, what are the issues it has?

kennell 10y ago

The video he is refering to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk

thringsaround 10y ago
I know it's a sensitive subject for HN, but I'll go ahead and encourage folks not to watch that video, at least without taking a look at some of the other popular videos on that channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmb8hO2ilV9vRa8cilis88A https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmb8hO2ilV9vRa8cilis88A) and making an informed decision. To be clear, since technical expertise and regressive politics are not necessarily mutually exclusive, I'm not saying that you shouldn't watch it-- just that you might not want to.
- jshevek 10y ago
  What could be more regressive than ignoring one side of an engineering debate because that speaker doesn't agree with your politics?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - thringsaround 10y ago
    Snarky reply replaced: I'm sincerely curious if that's really all you're taking away from my comment, including the explicit disclaimer. My advice was to pay closer attention to the material, not to ignore it, so I'm perplexed as to how you managed to get the complete opposite message. This seems exceptionally straightforward to me, so I'll make it as un-political as I can: There are lifetimes of new content available for your consumption every single day. Maybe it's not all worthwhile. Maybe not 1% of it is. It doesn't matter-- you'll never get to see an infinitesimal fraction of it, even just the good, true, accurate stuff. So how do you decide what to pay attention to with your mortal lifespan? Just as a first pass, I like to use filters like "is this notably excellent" or "does this make me want to throw up at all, even just a little". Then if it's not excellent, or if the speaker doesn't agree with my politics, or especially both, I don't feel any remorse whatsoever about skipping it. This isn't about shutting myself off. I think it's very important to expose myself to perspectives that differ from my own, to broaden my own frame of reference. I also think that feces play a critically important role in my metabolism, but that doesn't mean I'm excited to open a box of donuts and discover a frosted turd. And I'll accept exactly 0 concern trolling around my publicly saying, just, hey... look in the box. If it's a turd in there, you don't still have to eat it.
    - jshevek 10y ago
      > if that's really all you're taking away I'm not commenting on everything, just the things I think are the most important. I can't read your mind, but in your own words you "encourage folks not to watch that video at least without..." Just my impression, but it appears to me that you aren't even trying to contribute to the actual topics of discussion in any meaningful way.
      - thringsaround 10y ago
        > but in your own words you "encourage folks not to watch that video at least without..." Trying really hard not to get back on snark here, but... did you literally just stop reading there? Just finish my sentence: I "encourage folks not to watch that video, at least without [...] making an informed decision." So, do you think folks shouldn't make an informed decision, or do you think my decision is wrong? Just my impression, but it appears that you might be arguing one as a proxy for another.
        kd0amg 10y ago
        So... watch several of his other videos and then decide whether to watch this one? And that's to save time spent on consuming non-worthwhile content? You could stand to be a lot more specific about what your beef is with this youtuber and how that links back to the arguments given in this video.
        thringsaround 10y ago
        No. Just go to the channel, read the titles of some of the other videos, and then either walk away, or not, for your own reasons, or not. Or don't, if that really seems so hard. Again, weirded out that this is such a burdensome ask for some of you. Like, I'm not even talking about my politics, just pointing out that my politics exist.
        kd0amg 10y ago
        You're also refusing to explain what they are or why they're relevant to this video.
  - thringsaround 10y ago
    Things have calmed down a bit, so I'll just double down on this before I go: Do you even hear yourself when you talk? "What could be more regressive?" Um, how about deporting children? How about mandatory minimums in drug sentencing? How about forced pregnancy to death? How about racial gerrymandering? How about, jesus, any actually regressive policy? No, when it starts interrupting low-fi YouTube debates about hypothetical public transit infrastructure, that is when the tyranny of the majority has gone too far! Wow. Honestly, I don't even care if you or anyone wants to use HN to score a few points in Gatorade's famously unpopular ARG. But you know, people do read this stuff, and the public already has a very low opinion of technical folks' political aptitude, so when you say something outright absurd like that it reflects poorly on all of us. Anyway, there's my "politics", hope you like them <3
- Ralfp 10y ago
  Poisoning the well, are we? Tunderf00t's youtube channel may seem to be a product of complete lunatic, but is actually an result of years of antagonisation between members of the community that used to be very close but underwent falling out due to internal agendas and opinions on what their community actually should be.
  - jshevek 10y ago
    Yes, in my opinion the parent is trying to poison the well while saying "I'm not poisoning the well", then saying "How dare you suggest I'm poisoning the well when I actually said I wasn't poisoning the well".
  - thringsaround 10y ago
    If I were discrediting the channel as a means to discredit the video or its content, that might be poisoning the well. But the content is (god, I hope) not at issue. Discrediting the channel on its own merits is more of a "hey look, poison!" Anyway. I'm comfortable that a reasonable person can page through YouTube, Google some names, and determine that no sort of reciprocity is going on here. If they care. The revisionism is annoying, but fortunately the "community" to which you refer is structured around providing "context" that, to dispassionate observers, merely proves the point.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      > If I were discrediting the channel as a means to discredit the video or its content If that's not your intent, you're just making personal attacks on the creator as a complete non-sequitur to the thread, which is even more of an inappropriate abuse of the HN audience than well-poisoning would be.
      - thringsaround 10y ago
        You're getting out of bounds. If you think my comments here are irrelevant or abusive, please report them to a moderator and desist replying. Otherwise, I'm here to talk if you are.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  If you want to make an argument as to why people shouldn't watch the video, please do so in a more direct manner. You seem to be making an ad hominem argument without even bothering to explain what specific ill the target is guilty of (beyond vague "regressive politics".)
  - thringsaround 10y ago
    I have made, and am still making, no such argument, at considerable length, in this very thread. You are more than encouraged to join other commenters in vigorously protesting and debating my non-argument :)