4 ms·

> This article really just emphasizes the fact that we are living in an age of complete lack of personal responsibility and self-control, where you can blame an

> This article really just emphasizes the fact that we are living in an age of complete lack of personal responsibility and self-control, where you can blame an institution for your inability to spend. Not having credit cards is one way to control yourself.

Bartweiss 10y ago
The whole "it's a lack of self control" claim is really weird to me. I don't stock my house with junk food, because I'd rather use willpower once at the store than constantly in my living room. Am I supposed to feel weak-willed for making the simpler choice? I guess you can argue that people are giving up a lot and ought to find the willpower to get those benefits, but for that you need to argue that they're actually giving up a lot. Otherwise, it's just as you say: these are people who are controlling their spending and not blaming institutions.
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  I used to do that. Then I married someone who absolutely will not stop stocking the house with junk food, no matter how often I ask, beg, or demand that they stop. We have at least managed to compromise on always hiding it from me and never explicitly telling me that it's there. (But even so, I'd prefer not to be forced to buy garbage out of the household funds against my will.) So from that metaphorical perspective, using credit cards for "the benefits" is a lot like buying a dozen glazed doughnuts, just for their smell. So you occasionally open up the box, take a whiff, and close it again, throwing them out and replacing them as necessary to replenish the odor. But sooner or later, you're going to take a bite. Credit is best used for durable goods that produce value, or at least depreciate more slowly than the interest rate of the loan--an American household's primary car, for example. Instant consumer gratification is just not a wise use of credit, no matter how many sugary sprinkles it has on top. And that's exactly what credit cards are mainly used for--as financial junk food. Most people buy the credit doughnuts, actually eat them, and get fat. So good job to those that can go their entire lives whiffing free doughnut smells, but some people have to arrange their lives such that they don't even drive past the doughnut shop in the morning. It's just a different kind of self-control to avoid temptations in the first place.
  - Bartweiss 10y ago
    > It's just a different kind of self-control to avoid temptations in the first place. This is exactly it. We all use both kinds of self-restraint, but it's still worth arranging external forces to support the kind of self-control you find easier. I've used credit cards, and taken on debt, but always with a clear plan in mind (metaphorically, I drove to the donut shop intending to eat one?) It's been for large purchases (primary car) and some time-convenience things that came without interest (washing machine). If I were seriously worried about spending into debt without a plan, I probably wouldn't keep credit cards, or would keep 1-2 low limit cards. As it happens, I don't struggle much with that issue, but we all use mitigation in places where we do struggle, and I see nothing with it.

Bartweiss 10y ago

The whole "it's a lack of self control" claim is really weird to me. I don't stock my house with junk food, because I'd rather use willpower once at the store than constantly in my living room. Am I supposed to feel weak-willed for making the simpler choice? I guess you can argue that people are giving up a lot and ought to find the willpower to get those benefits, but for that you need to argue that they're actually giving up a lot. Otherwise, it's just as you say: these are people who are controlling their spending and not blaming institutions.

logfromblammo 10y ago
I used to do that. Then I married someone who absolutely will not stop stocking the house with junk food, no matter how often I ask, beg, or demand that they stop. We have at least managed to compromise on always hiding it from me and never explicitly telling me that it's there. (But even so, I'd prefer not to be forced to buy garbage out of the household funds against my will.) So from that metaphorical perspective, using credit cards for "the benefits" is a lot like buying a dozen glazed doughnuts, just for their smell. So you occasionally open up the box, take a whiff, and close it again, throwing them out and replacing them as necessary to replenish the odor. But sooner or later, you're going to take a bite. Credit is best used for durable goods that produce value, or at least depreciate more slowly than the interest rate of the loan--an American household's primary car, for example. Instant consumer gratification is just not a wise use of credit, no matter how many sugary sprinkles it has on top. And that's exactly what credit cards are mainly used for--as financial junk food. Most people buy the credit doughnuts, actually eat them, and get fat. So good job to those that can go their entire lives whiffing free doughnut smells, but some people have to arrange their lives such that they don't even drive past the doughnut shop in the morning. It's just a different kind of self-control to avoid temptations in the first place.
- Bartweiss 10y ago
  > It's just a different kind of self-control to avoid temptations in the first place. This is exactly it. We all use both kinds of self-restraint, but it's still worth arranging external forces to support the kind of self-control you find easier. I've used credit cards, and taken on debt, but always with a clear plan in mind (metaphorically, I drove to the donut shop intending to eat one?) It's been for large purchases (primary car) and some time-convenience things that came without interest (washing machine). If I were seriously worried about spending into debt without a plan, I probably wouldn't keep credit cards, or would keep 1-2 low limit cards. As it happens, I don't struggle much with that issue, but we all use mitigation in places where we do struggle, and I see nothing with it.