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I can probably load and ready an empty rifle that's in my hands faster than I can move a slung, loaded rifle from my back into my hands. That's using a proper s

I can probably load and ready an empty rifle that's in my hands faster than I can move a slung, loaded rifle from my back into my hands. That's using a proper sling and not the improvised sling shown in the picture. It's also significantly safer to have the rifle in his hands than loaded on his back. It wouldn't be that hard for the trigger to catch on something and fire a round while the rifle is still slung. Carrying an unloaded weapon, with proper trigger and muzzle discipline, is perfectly safe.

jessaustin 10y ago
I specifically noted that the chamber should be empty. There's nothing that can happen accidentally to a slung rifle that will chamber a round. Keeping one's finger on the trigger guard while standing around is not proper trigger discipline. It's appropriate in an active, attentive situation, and perhaps photography is such a situation, but ISTM this person is allowing his habit of always being unloaded to foster some bad habits.
- fredophile 10y ago
  Mistakes happen. Once you put a magazine on a weapon it's pretty easy to ready it. Think about how many people die every year because someone was cleaning a gun they thought was unloaded but wasn't. What about keeping your finger on the trigger guard do you have a problem with? Where do you think his finger should be when he's carrying his rifle?
  - jessaustin 10y ago
    Yes that's why experienced gun users regularly bump back the slide/open the breech a crack/otherwise check the chamber when handling firearms. I've seen firearm instructors who could perform that action in tenths of a second with their favorite semiautomatic pistols. In a variety of situations, it's just as important to be able to confirm that a chamber is loaded as it is to be able to confirm the converse. You do know that a missing magazine is no proof of an empty chamber, right? My "problem" is experience. An acquaintance who was a little too fond of the "commando" trigger finger posture inadvertently fired a shot in my presence. The firearm was properly pointed at the ground so tragedy did not ensue, but this person was soon convinced to leave his fingers on the grip where they belong, until such time as he is sighting his intended target. For rifles without pistol grips, it's fine to wrap one's hand around the neck of the stock. [EDIT:] I wonder whether my difficulties in this thread stem mostly from cultural differences? In every nation in which I've encountered soldiers holding their rifles in this posture in public spaces, including to my chagrin USA, their presence has made me feel less safe. I don't assume that they know what they're doing, nor that their commanding officers do. I am not comforted when it's pointed out that their firearms have been somehow neutered, as if that were possible. A firearm has one valid purpose. If it's not time to kill someone, it's not time to handle firearms. Leave it holstered, leave it slung, leave it racked. Go to the range often enough to be comfortable handling your firearm safely, and other than that don't handle it until lives are threatened. Firearms are not suitable tools for rhetoric or ceremony or morale or intimidation, and the growing number of third-world-attitude governments (like that of USA) who see them that way are a blight upon humanity.
    - fredophile 10y ago
      I think this discussion is straying off topic. I don't want to get into a discussion of when it is or isn't appropriate for the military, LEOs, or civilians to carry weapons. Your original argument was that slinging a loaded rifle vs carrying an unloaded rifle as shown in the picture is: 1) less threatening 2) more responsive 3) safer I'm perfectly willing to concede the first point. Holding a weapon in your hands is a more aggressive posture than carrying it slung. For the second point, I've already mentioned that I can load and ready a weapon in my hands faster than I can unsling and ready a rifle from my back. Our main point of disagreement seems to be on the third point. You are correct that a rifle with no magazine can still have a round in the chamber. This is why you should clear any weapon when you pick it up. If someone has cleared a weapon and never attached a source of ammunition the weapon won't have a round in the chamber. If they attached a magazine then there is a chance that they also put a round in the chamber even if they weren't supposed to. Not attaching a magazine prevents this mistake from being possible. While a round could be in the chamber in either case, I'd rather see an unloaded rifle than a loaded one. We also disagree on hand placement on the pistol grip. In the case you mentioned your acquaintance had a readied weapon he did not intend to fire immediately, with the safety off, and placed his finger on the trigger. The weapon firing was the result of multiple mistakes. It sounds like your acquaintance has decided to prevent one of those mistakes in the future by changing how he holds his pistol grip. Hopefully he also learns to use his safety. It's also important to remember that the person in the photo is a soldier and not just some random guy with a gun. Soldiers should always handle weapons the way they intend to use them. In stressful situations people fall back to what they're in the habit of doing. Soldiers should be used to carrying their rifle in a way that lets them take the safety off and fire the weapon without moving their hand on the pistol grip.

jessaustin 10y ago

I specifically noted that the chamber should be empty. There's nothing that can happen accidentally to a slung rifle that will chamber a round. Keeping one's finger on the trigger guard while standing around is not proper trigger discipline. It's appropriate in an active, attentive situation, and perhaps photography is such a situation, but ISTM this person is allowing his habit of always being unloaded to foster some bad habits.

fredophile 10y ago
Mistakes happen. Once you put a magazine on a weapon it's pretty easy to ready it. Think about how many people die every year because someone was cleaning a gun they thought was unloaded but wasn't. What about keeping your finger on the trigger guard do you have a problem with? Where do you think his finger should be when he's carrying his rifle?
- jessaustin 10y ago
  Yes that's why experienced gun users regularly bump back the slide/open the breech a crack/otherwise check the chamber when handling firearms. I've seen firearm instructors who could perform that action in tenths of a second with their favorite semiautomatic pistols. In a variety of situations, it's just as important to be able to confirm that a chamber is loaded as it is to be able to confirm the converse. You do know that a missing magazine is no proof of an empty chamber, right? My "problem" is experience. An acquaintance who was a little too fond of the "commando" trigger finger posture inadvertently fired a shot in my presence. The firearm was properly pointed at the ground so tragedy did not ensue, but this person was soon convinced to leave his fingers on the grip where they belong, until such time as he is sighting his intended target. For rifles without pistol grips, it's fine to wrap one's hand around the neck of the stock. [EDIT:] I wonder whether my difficulties in this thread stem mostly from cultural differences? In every nation in which I've encountered soldiers holding their rifles in this posture in public spaces, including to my chagrin USA, their presence has made me feel less safe. I don't assume that they know what they're doing, nor that their commanding officers do. I am not comforted when it's pointed out that their firearms have been somehow neutered, as if that were possible. A firearm has one valid purpose. If it's not time to kill someone, it's not time to handle firearms. Leave it holstered, leave it slung, leave it racked. Go to the range often enough to be comfortable handling your firearm safely, and other than that don't handle it until lives are threatened. Firearms are not suitable tools for rhetoric or ceremony or morale or intimidation, and the growing number of third-world-attitude governments (like that of USA) who see them that way are a blight upon humanity.
  - fredophile 10y ago
    I think this discussion is straying off topic. I don't want to get into a discussion of when it is or isn't appropriate for the military, LEOs, or civilians to carry weapons. Your original argument was that slinging a loaded rifle vs carrying an unloaded rifle as shown in the picture is: 1) less threatening 2) more responsive 3) safer I'm perfectly willing to concede the first point. Holding a weapon in your hands is a more aggressive posture than carrying it slung. For the second point, I've already mentioned that I can load and ready a weapon in my hands faster than I can unsling and ready a rifle from my back. Our main point of disagreement seems to be on the third point. You are correct that a rifle with no magazine can still have a round in the chamber. This is why you should clear any weapon when you pick it up. If someone has cleared a weapon and never attached a source of ammunition the weapon won't have a round in the chamber. If they attached a magazine then there is a chance that they also put a round in the chamber even if they weren't supposed to. Not attaching a magazine prevents this mistake from being possible. While a round could be in the chamber in either case, I'd rather see an unloaded rifle than a loaded one. We also disagree on hand placement on the pistol grip. In the case you mentioned your acquaintance had a readied weapon he did not intend to fire immediately, with the safety off, and placed his finger on the trigger. The weapon firing was the result of multiple mistakes. It sounds like your acquaintance has decided to prevent one of those mistakes in the future by changing how he holds his pistol grip. Hopefully he also learns to use his safety. It's also important to remember that the person in the photo is a soldier and not just some random guy with a gun. Soldiers should always handle weapons the way they intend to use them. In stressful situations people fall back to what they're in the habit of doing. Soldiers should be used to carrying their rifle in a way that lets them take the safety off and fire the weapon without moving their hand on the pistol grip.