4 ms·

‘We want cash’ Drug agents seize $209mn in random profiling of 5,200 travelers

52 points by compil3r 10y ago

douche 10y ago
There's virtually no chance, with this much shady money getting confiscated, that some fraction isn't getting skimmed off the top into the pockets of the individual, relatively lowly paid, officers. It's inevitable, even if you had the most incorruptible individuals imaginable, the temptation is too great.
nomercy400 10y ago
And people say China is corrupt...
dragonbonheur 10y ago
The United States has fast become the land where a wall informed individual should never set foot, if he/she values his/her belongings, freedom and life.
- jdimov10 10y ago
  I lived in the US for 5 years - I went there as an exchange student when I was 17, finished high school then went to university. One day, just before completing my CS & Math degree, I was arrested, imprisoned and (after 3 months of being bounced around various detention facilities in 3 different states, without any explanation) I was deported for violating my student visa (because I had to work to pay tuition). Have not set foot there since 2012 and don't intend to, even though my wife really wants to visit NYC. Frankly, right now I feel I would be safer visiting North Korea or Syria or Yemen, than the US. I'm absolutely terrified by just about anything that has to do with the USofA. I have also come to distrust Americans more than any other group of people. [For context, I'm a white, middle-class entrepreneur / software engineer, originally from east Europe, now living in the UK]
  - dragonbonheur 10y ago
    Please, Please, please, pretty please-with-extra-sugar-and-rainbow-sprinkles-and-chocolate-chips on top, do not visit North Korea, Yemen, Syria or even Dubai or Abu Dhabi either.
    - jdimov10 10y ago
      Already been to Dubai and Abu Dhabi multiple times, for both pleasure and business. Have taken my family a few times too. We love it there (although I am not at all oblivious to the way they treat Asian workers). And for Yemen - I have been dying to visit Sana'a, such a deeply beautiful place. And I'm devastated that this seems like an impossible dream now, after the US/Saudi invasion.
  - robk 10y ago
    You should absolutely go to Syria and report back how much better it is and how much more free you feel there.
    - jdimov10 10y ago
      Your sarcasm is shallow, but your intelligence is even shallower.
  - throwaway049 10y ago
    Being deported for a visa violation seems like a fair application of the law, although from what I know about you solely based on this post, America's loss is the UK's gain.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - ghshephard 10y ago
    Well, if you had done that in Singapore, heck, not even worked, just overstayed your visa, you would have both gone to prison and been caned. Visa laws for countries can be very, very serious. Violating them can get you in a lot of trouble - certainly not unique to the United States. In comparison to a lot of other countries, the United States isn't even particularly harsh if you overstay your visa - certainly no caning.
gambiting 10y ago
This "land of the free" sounds very much like Russia to me. In fact, I would rather live in Russia to be honest.
TamDenholm 10y ago
John Oliver did a story on something very similar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks
benmmurphy 10y ago
and contrast what happened to the secretary that took ~$800,000 worth of information from their company (http://www.thewire.com/national/2014/08/the-dea-paid-an-amtrak-secretary-854460-for-free-passenger-lists/375895/ http://www.thewire.com/national/2014/08/the-dea-paid-an-amtr...) with what happened to Sergey Aleynikov (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Aleynikov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Aleynikov)
gotthemwmds 10y ago
It's long been known by people who play the drug game that the authorities only care about lining their own pockets. This is an anecdotal story, but could be "New Yorker level" vetted if someone tried. About 20 years ago my friend John was living in Salt Lake City, Utah -- where he grew up -- and had rented a house in CA for the sole purpose of growing pot in. He spent almost 5 years bringing about 50-100lbs of high potency pot into Utah in his Prius 2-3 times per month, making countless trips back and forth, before his first contact with the authorities. They pulled him over about a block away from his house and told him they had been watching him and knew what he had in the car -- about 50lbs of pot in duffel bags. He was arrested and charged with... wait for it... failing to pay taxes on the marijuana. He was out of jail within 6 hours. His lawyer told him he had three choices: pay the taxes, to the tune of about $350k, or fight it, or plead guilty. He wrote a check for $350k and never heard from the authorities again. He continued to do this for another 10 years and was never bothered again. Strictly pot. You may wonder how he was able to write that check without raising eyebrows. A few of his clients were business owners who had him on the payroll (taxes and all) to pay for their regular supply of pot. Plus he was "an independent artist" and filed 1099-Ts every quarter via his accountant. Through these methods he made plenty of money on paper, and obviously lived very cheaply (in an apartment). He has still never had a real job and retired at 35, with no record what so ever.
- foobarcrunch 10y ago
  American police currently behave as a paramilitary, occupying mafia just slightly less terrible than anarchy.
  - gotthemwmds 10y ago
    I hope no one is wondering why the DEA made the unconscionable act of not re-classifying marijuana as a Schedule II drug. There are so many tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people whose livelihood is tried up in arresting people for drug crimes that shouldn't be illegal in the first place. Think about all those DEA agents making $100k a year plus their pensions, all those judges and public defenders, all those private prisons full of people doing possession charges. All those local cops employed to keep an eye on them during probation. It's absolutely disgusting and ruins peoples' lives on a daily basis, but totally expected behavior in a society that only cares about money (aka capitalism). I am sort of surprised there isn't a lot more backlash against the DEA for this horrible move last week, but then again, the pro-pot legalization movement isn't all that impressive either. The most annoying thing about marijuana is fucking idiot stoners representing the brand. edit: and don't even get me started on the huge amount of needless deaths in northern Mexico directly caused by the War on Drugs. Go read 2666 if you want a sliver of an idea of how bad it is there. But hey, to the average American, they are brown people so they don't care. Disgusting.
lostlogin 10y ago
This is alarming and a massive overstep. However why would anyone ever travel with sums like that on them? I don't get it at all. I know that the US is a society that uses cash a lot more than mine, but carry sums like that seems utterly crazy.
- rincebrain 10y ago
  People generally don't carry large sums of cash, but there are a number of cases where one might. People who are paranoid about banks, for example, or people who cannot, for one reason or another, use a bank account without raising eyebrows. Possibly the most innocuous example I can think of would be someone who is paid mostly in cash tips, and does not put them in the bank to avoid any paper trail requiring taxes. If they then paid their living expenses entirely out of their "base" wages, they could accumulate a substantial under-the-table pile of money.
- ghshephard 10y ago
  Because you don't want to be at the mercy of a bank? When your money sits in a bank account, anybody who wants to take it, or seize it, simply has to contact the bank with appropriate legal authority, and poof - your money is gone, with no recourse whatsoever. At least when you have the physical cash, they have to deal with you personally. Of course, as we see here, that's becoming more common.
  - lostlogin 10y ago
    Maybe banks are less easy to trust where you are. I have concerns about what happens with my records, but no concerns over my money going away. All banks in New Zealand have a pretty good health rating.
    - ghshephard 10y ago
      People feel that way about their banks until the first time money is taken out of their account without their permission. Certainly very possible in the United States.
foobarcrunch 10y ago
https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police-practices/asset-forfeiture-abuse https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming-po...
jamestnz 10y ago
"Civil forfeiture" they call this, where the local Police Department essentially steals your stuff, and the burden is on you to prove why you should get it back. Of course you'd assume the local PD couldn't possibly be allowed to keep it themselves, surely it is remitted into some state or federal government fund. Well, enter the "Equitable Sharing" program, which was halted/curtailed in 2015 when there was a furore about it, but has apparently resumed[1]. This is where the actual local PD that seized your money really does get to keep 80% of it themselves, with only 20% going to the feds. But for some reason the locals aren't allowed to spend this money on op-ex (salaries etc) so they often spend it on crazy equipment which they can obtain via the Department of Defense's 1033 Program[2][3] which allows PDs to buy excess military equipment like weaponized vehicles, armored personnel carriers, grenade launchers, and helicopters -- obviously contributing to the increasing militarization of police[4]. Conflict of interest much? More confiscation of citizen funds == more toys for the boys at the PD. All funded by money and assets seized from citizens on highly questionable grounds, with no real semblance of due process. Not great. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/28/the-feds-have-resumed-a-controversial-program-that-lets-cops-take-stuff-and-keep-it/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/28/the-f... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program [3] http://www.businessinsider.com.au/aclu-report-on-police-militarization-2014-8 http://www.businessinsider.com.au/aclu-report-on-police-mili... [4] http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/10/11/asset-seizures-fuel-police-spending/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/10/11/as...
tomhoward 10y ago
Previous discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12268122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12268122
bertil 10y ago
A young gentleman whose name escapes me had develop an app to fight parking tickets (in NY, SF & the UK), and more recently work on housing assistance (in the UK). His work is often dubbed “robo-lawyer”. Given the scale, would it make sense to have a similar work done for civil forfeiture?
codingmyway 10y ago
What you'd expect from the US Government / the world's most powerful protection racket

52 points by compil3r 10y ago

There's virtually no chance, with this much shady money getting confiscated, that some fraction isn't getting skimmed off the top into the pockets of the individual, relatively lowly paid, officers. It's inevitable, even if you had the most incorruptible individuals imaginable, the temptation is too great.

nomercy400 10y ago

And people say China is corrupt...

dragonbonheur 10y ago

The United States has fast become the land where a wall informed individual should never set foot, if he/she values his/her belongings, freedom and life.

jdimov10 10y ago
I lived in the US for 5 years - I went there as an exchange student when I was 17, finished high school then went to university. One day, just before completing my CS & Math degree, I was arrested, imprisoned and (after 3 months of being bounced around various detention facilities in 3 different states, without any explanation) I was deported for violating my student visa (because I had to work to pay tuition). Have not set foot there since 2012 and don't intend to, even though my wife really wants to visit NYC. Frankly, right now I feel I would be safer visiting North Korea or Syria or Yemen, than the US. I'm absolutely terrified by just about anything that has to do with the USofA. I have also come to distrust Americans more than any other group of people. [For context, I'm a white, middle-class entrepreneur / software engineer, originally from east Europe, now living in the UK]
- dragonbonheur 10y ago
  Please, Please, please, pretty please-with-extra-sugar-and-rainbow-sprinkles-and-chocolate-chips on top, do not visit North Korea, Yemen, Syria or even Dubai or Abu Dhabi either.
  - jdimov10 10y ago
    Already been to Dubai and Abu Dhabi multiple times, for both pleasure and business. Have taken my family a few times too. We love it there (although I am not at all oblivious to the way they treat Asian workers). And for Yemen - I have been dying to visit Sana'a, such a deeply beautiful place. And I'm devastated that this seems like an impossible dream now, after the US/Saudi invasion.
- robk 10y ago
  You should absolutely go to Syria and report back how much better it is and how much more free you feel there.
  - jdimov10 10y ago
    Your sarcasm is shallow, but your intelligence is even shallower.
- throwaway049 10y ago
  Being deported for a visa violation seems like a fair application of the law, although from what I know about you solely based on this post, America's loss is the UK's gain.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- ghshephard 10y ago
  Well, if you had done that in Singapore, heck, not even worked, just overstayed your visa, you would have both gone to prison and been caned. Visa laws for countries can be very, very serious. Violating them can get you in a lot of trouble - certainly not unique to the United States. In comparison to a lot of other countries, the United States isn't even particularly harsh if you overstay your visa - certainly no caning.

gambiting 10y ago

This "land of the free" sounds very much like Russia to me. In fact, I would rather live in Russia to be honest.

TamDenholm 10y ago

John Oliver did a story on something very similar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks

benmmurphy 10y ago

and contrast what happened to the secretary that took ~$800,000 worth of information from their company (http://www.thewire.com/national/2014/08/the-dea-paid-an-amtrak-secretary-854460-for-free-passenger-lists/375895/ http://www.thewire.com/national/2014/08/the-dea-paid-an-amtr...) with what happened to Sergey Aleynikov (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Aleynikov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Aleynikov)

gotthemwmds 10y ago

It's long been known by people who play the drug game that the authorities only care about lining their own pockets. This is an anecdotal story, but could be "New Yorker level" vetted if someone tried. About 20 years ago my friend John was living in Salt Lake City, Utah -- where he grew up -- and had rented a house in CA for the sole purpose of growing pot in. He spent almost 5 years bringing about 50-100lbs of high potency pot into Utah in his Prius 2-3 times per month, making countless trips back and forth, before his first contact with the authorities. They pulled him over about a block away from his house and told him they had been watching him and knew what he had in the car -- about 50lbs of pot in duffel bags. He was arrested and charged with... wait for it... failing to pay taxes on the marijuana. He was out of jail within 6 hours. His lawyer told him he had three choices: pay the taxes, to the tune of about $350k, or fight it, or plead guilty. He wrote a check for $350k and never heard from the authorities again. He continued to do this for another 10 years and was never bothered again. Strictly pot. You may wonder how he was able to write that check without raising eyebrows. A few of his clients were business owners who had him on the payroll (taxes and all) to pay for their regular supply of pot. Plus he was "an independent artist" and filed 1099-Ts every quarter via his accountant. Through these methods he made plenty of money on paper, and obviously lived very cheaply (in an apartment). He has still never had a real job and retired at 35, with no record what so ever.

foobarcrunch 10y ago
American police currently behave as a paramilitary, occupying mafia just slightly less terrible than anarchy.
- gotthemwmds 10y ago
  I hope no one is wondering why the DEA made the unconscionable act of not re-classifying marijuana as a Schedule II drug. There are so many tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people whose livelihood is tried up in arresting people for drug crimes that shouldn't be illegal in the first place. Think about all those DEA agents making $100k a year plus their pensions, all those judges and public defenders, all those private prisons full of people doing possession charges. All those local cops employed to keep an eye on them during probation. It's absolutely disgusting and ruins peoples' lives on a daily basis, but totally expected behavior in a society that only cares about money (aka capitalism). I am sort of surprised there isn't a lot more backlash against the DEA for this horrible move last week, but then again, the pro-pot legalization movement isn't all that impressive either. The most annoying thing about marijuana is fucking idiot stoners representing the brand. edit: and don't even get me started on the huge amount of needless deaths in northern Mexico directly caused by the War on Drugs. Go read 2666 if you want a sliver of an idea of how bad it is there. But hey, to the average American, they are brown people so they don't care. Disgusting.

lostlogin 10y ago

This is alarming and a massive overstep. However why would anyone ever travel with sums like that on them? I don't get it at all. I know that the US is a society that uses cash a lot more than mine, but carry sums like that seems utterly crazy.

rincebrain 10y ago
People generally don't carry large sums of cash, but there are a number of cases where one might. People who are paranoid about banks, for example, or people who cannot, for one reason or another, use a bank account without raising eyebrows. Possibly the most innocuous example I can think of would be someone who is paid mostly in cash tips, and does not put them in the bank to avoid any paper trail requiring taxes. If they then paid their living expenses entirely out of their "base" wages, they could accumulate a substantial under-the-table pile of money.
ghshephard 10y ago
Because you don't want to be at the mercy of a bank? When your money sits in a bank account, anybody who wants to take it, or seize it, simply has to contact the bank with appropriate legal authority, and poof - your money is gone, with no recourse whatsoever. At least when you have the physical cash, they have to deal with you personally. Of course, as we see here, that's becoming more common.
- lostlogin 10y ago
  Maybe banks are less easy to trust where you are. I have concerns about what happens with my records, but no concerns over my money going away. All banks in New Zealand have a pretty good health rating.
  - ghshephard 10y ago
    People feel that way about their banks until the first time money is taken out of their account without their permission. Certainly very possible in the United States.

foobarcrunch 10y ago

https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police-practices/asset-forfeiture-abuse https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming-po...

jamestnz 10y ago

"Civil forfeiture" they call this, where the local Police Department essentially steals your stuff, and the burden is on you to prove why you should get it back. Of course you'd assume the local PD couldn't possibly be allowed to keep it themselves, surely it is remitted into some state or federal government fund. Well, enter the "Equitable Sharing" program, which was halted/curtailed in 2015 when there was a furore about it, but has apparently resumed[1]. This is where the actual local PD that seized your money really does get to keep 80% of it themselves, with only 20% going to the feds. But for some reason the locals aren't allowed to spend this money on op-ex (salaries etc) so they often spend it on crazy equipment which they can obtain via the Department of Defense's 1033 Program[2][3] which allows PDs to buy excess military equipment like weaponized vehicles, armored personnel carriers, grenade launchers, and helicopters -- obviously contributing to the increasing militarization of police[4]. Conflict of interest much? More confiscation of citizen funds == more toys for the boys at the PD. All funded by money and assets seized from citizens on highly questionable grounds, with no real semblance of due process. Not great. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/28/the-feds-have-resumed-a-controversial-program-that-lets-cops-take-stuff-and-keep-it/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/28/the-f... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1033_program [3] http://www.businessinsider.com.au/aclu-report-on-police-militarization-2014-8 http://www.businessinsider.com.au/aclu-report-on-police-mili... [4] http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/10/11/asset-seizures-fuel-police-spending/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2014/10/11/as...

tomhoward 10y ago

Previous discussion here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12268122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12268122

bertil 10y ago

A young gentleman whose name escapes me had develop an app to fight parking tickets (in NY, SF & the UK), and more recently work on housing assistance (in the UK). His work is often dubbed “robo-lawyer”. Given the scale, would it make sense to have a similar work done for civil forfeiture?

codingmyway 10y ago

What you'd expect from the US Government / the world's most powerful protection racket