6 ms·

Many people dislike the congestion, noise, and higher expense of space of the city. The average income of the US is like 50k. If you have a family of 4 the siz

by hueving 10y ago

Many people dislike the congestion, noise, and higher expense of space of the city. The average income of the US is like 50k. If you have a family of 4 the size of apartment you get on that income in a city is extremely cramped. Additionally, the allure of walking everywhere quickly disappears when you have a 2 and 5 year old.

pluma 10y ago
To be fair, that has more to do with the US than with suburbia vs city. I'm European and I wouldn't want to live in a place like most US suburbs ever.
- lintiness 10y ago
  you would if you had kids you cared about. the schools in suburban areas in the states are magnitudes better than comps in the city. there's a fucking reason people pay and pay dearly to live in those areas.
  - pluma 10y ago
    You didn't read what I said. I wouldn't want to live in US suburbia. My wife and I actually live in two places right now because of our line of work: There's a 2BR apartment in a German city with about a million residents. It's not exactly downtown but definitely urban. It's actually slightly less central than the place I grew up but it's where we mostly stay when working on-site for clients in the region. We also live in a 3BR apartment in a German town with about 15k residents. When we have children, this is where they will grow up until we need a bigger place. I wouldn't want to live in US cities either, but for completely unrelated reasons. I'm more inclined to believe that it's possible to find a bearable place in urban regions in the US than in the traditional American cliché suburbia. Either way I'd prefer almost any apartment I've lived in (except for the tiny 1BR place we stayed when we were studying) over that.
    - lintiness 10y ago
      320M people have managed to find places in our 3.8M sqare miles "bearable". did you learn about america from movies?
    - hueving 10y ago
      It sounds like you are judging the entire US based on almost no information. The snobbish condescension is almost insufferable. Maybe try providing some interesting information in your comments about what it is that you don't like about US suburbia.
  - CalRobert 10y ago
    And yet they fail to teach capitalization. Or tact.
  - wklauss 10y ago
    By choosing suburbia you are part of the force underfunding city schools and perpetuating the problem.
    - ocdtrekkie 10y ago
      Probably. But you choosing to have your kids go to a suburban school doesn't singlehandedly cause it, and you choosing to remain in an urban environment won't singlehandedly fix it. So the choice remains, do you want your kids to go to a good school or a cruddy school? If you care about your kids and are mildly practical, this question answers itself.
    - lintiness 10y ago
      i lived in chicago for 20 years. the city schools were funded just fine, the teachers' pensions (generous to say the least) weren't. i'm a lot more interested in my kid being safe and challenged at school than i am in paying for some retired teacher to take more vacations.
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    "you would if you had kids you cared about." With that statement, you just lost any credibility your point had.
majewsky 10y ago
> Additionally, the allure of walking everywhere quickly disappears when you have a 2 and 5 year old. Does it? Many people have small children in my peer group, and I've seen them moving to walking through their neighborhood rather than driving to their errands. The difference might be that German cities are much more hospitable to pedestrians in general. Also, there is sane public transit which is helpful if your toddler doesn't like to walk anymore.
- CalRobert 10y ago
  "German cities are much more hospitable to pedestrians in general" From what I've seen, German cities are much more hospitable to _humans_ in general. Towns too, for that matter. And Germany isn't exactly hostile to automobiles, which is impressive considering there's usually a conflict between walkability and drivability.
- hueving 10y ago
  >Does it? Yes, walking 2 miles with a two and five year old is awful. I suppose the experience from person to person is different, but I find two-year-olds to be quite selfish with short legs making them bad walking companions. >Also, there is sane public transit which is helpful if your toddler doesn't like to walk anymore. That sounds like not walking to me, but whatever.
  - CalRobert 10y ago
    "Yes, walking 2 miles with a two and five year old is awful." If you're walking two miles for normal errands your city is poorly designed.
    - majewsky 10y ago
      This. Also, most small children here have a tricycle or something similar once they're old enough to walk on their own. Sometimes the parent will carry or pull the tricycle, sometimes the child will use it if it does not want to walk.
jhbadger 10y ago
And yet childhood obesity is an increasing problem in the US. Maybe the suburban "let's drive everywhere" mentality is part of the problem.
- lintiness 10y ago
  have you people never been to a suburb? obesity is definitely not a problem in the suburbs i've lived in. we're talking mcmansions here -- parents are likely climbers pushing their kids into every activity of every imaginable kind (good or bad).
  - ocschwar 10y ago
    In an inner ring burb, or a New England town, you don't have to enroll the kid in anything to avoid obesity. Mine has to climb down and back up an 80 foot hill any time she wants to go to the library or ice cream shop.
  - ashark 10y ago
    Anecdotal, but I've noticed you can get a pretty good sense of the wealth level of neighborhoods in my city by who's out on the sidewalks on a summer weekday morning: skinny kids and overweight adults, all walking? Poor neighborhood. Skinny good-looking joggers? Rich neighborhood. The more attractive the average jogger, the richer it is.
  - hx87 10y ago
    I grew up in a tony suburb. Sure, the average kid who lived in one wasn't obese (although their parents are another matter), but for every McMansion there are 1000 people who work in the Walmarts, Home Depots, and AutoZones, and obesity rates among them are sky high.
- GunboatDiplomat 10y ago
  If that were the case, childhood obesity would have risen like a missile in the 50's and 60's.
mcv 10y ago
> Additionally, the allure of walking everywhere quickly disappears when you have a 2 and 5 year old. Here's how Dutch parents solve that problem: https://www.babboe.be/media/easyslide/Babboe-City-Bakfiets-Tweewieler.jpg https://www.babboe.be/media/easyslide/Babboe-City-Bakfiets-T... Though a 2 year old can still go in a stroller, and the 5 year old can walk. (And some strollers these days come with a platform where the 5 year old can stand.)

by hueving 10y ago

pluma 10y ago

To be fair, that has more to do with the US than with suburbia vs city. I'm European and I wouldn't want to live in a place like most US suburbs ever.

lintiness 10y ago
you would if you had kids you cared about. the schools in suburban areas in the states are magnitudes better than comps in the city. there's a fucking reason people pay and pay dearly to live in those areas.
- pluma 10y ago
  You didn't read what I said. I wouldn't want to live in US suburbia. My wife and I actually live in two places right now because of our line of work: There's a 2BR apartment in a German city with about a million residents. It's not exactly downtown but definitely urban. It's actually slightly less central than the place I grew up but it's where we mostly stay when working on-site for clients in the region. We also live in a 3BR apartment in a German town with about 15k residents. When we have children, this is where they will grow up until we need a bigger place. I wouldn't want to live in US cities either, but for completely unrelated reasons. I'm more inclined to believe that it's possible to find a bearable place in urban regions in the US than in the traditional American cliché suburbia. Either way I'd prefer almost any apartment I've lived in (except for the tiny 1BR place we stayed when we were studying) over that.
  - lintiness 10y ago
    320M people have managed to find places in our 3.8M sqare miles "bearable". did you learn about america from movies?
  - hueving 10y ago
    It sounds like you are judging the entire US based on almost no information. The snobbish condescension is almost insufferable. Maybe try providing some interesting information in your comments about what it is that you don't like about US suburbia.
- CalRobert 10y ago
  And yet they fail to teach capitalization. Or tact.
- wklauss 10y ago
  By choosing suburbia you are part of the force underfunding city schools and perpetuating the problem.
  - ocdtrekkie 10y ago
    Probably. But you choosing to have your kids go to a suburban school doesn't singlehandedly cause it, and you choosing to remain in an urban environment won't singlehandedly fix it. So the choice remains, do you want your kids to go to a good school or a cruddy school? If you care about your kids and are mildly practical, this question answers itself.
  - lintiness 10y ago
    i lived in chicago for 20 years. the city schools were funded just fine, the teachers' pensions (generous to say the least) weren't. i'm a lot more interested in my kid being safe and challenged at school than i am in paying for some retired teacher to take more vacations.
- st3v3r 10y ago
  "you would if you had kids you cared about." With that statement, you just lost any credibility your point had.

majewsky 10y ago

> Additionally, the allure of walking everywhere quickly disappears when you have a 2 and 5 year old. Does it? Many people have small children in my peer group, and I've seen them moving to walking through their neighborhood rather than driving to their errands. The difference might be that German cities are much more hospitable to pedestrians in general. Also, there is sane public transit which is helpful if your toddler doesn't like to walk anymore.

CalRobert 10y ago
"German cities are much more hospitable to pedestrians in general" From what I've seen, German cities are much more hospitable to _humans_ in general. Towns too, for that matter. And Germany isn't exactly hostile to automobiles, which is impressive considering there's usually a conflict between walkability and drivability.
hueving 10y ago
>Does it? Yes, walking 2 miles with a two and five year old is awful. I suppose the experience from person to person is different, but I find two-year-olds to be quite selfish with short legs making them bad walking companions. >Also, there is sane public transit which is helpful if your toddler doesn't like to walk anymore. That sounds like not walking to me, but whatever.
- CalRobert 10y ago
  "Yes, walking 2 miles with a two and five year old is awful." If you're walking two miles for normal errands your city is poorly designed.
  - majewsky 10y ago
    This. Also, most small children here have a tricycle or something similar once they're old enough to walk on their own. Sometimes the parent will carry or pull the tricycle, sometimes the child will use it if it does not want to walk.

jhbadger 10y ago

And yet childhood obesity is an increasing problem in the US. Maybe the suburban "let's drive everywhere" mentality is part of the problem.

lintiness 10y ago
have you people never been to a suburb? obesity is definitely not a problem in the suburbs i've lived in. we're talking mcmansions here -- parents are likely climbers pushing their kids into every activity of every imaginable kind (good or bad).
- ocschwar 10y ago
  In an inner ring burb, or a New England town, you don't have to enroll the kid in anything to avoid obesity. Mine has to climb down and back up an 80 foot hill any time she wants to go to the library or ice cream shop.
- ashark 10y ago
  Anecdotal, but I've noticed you can get a pretty good sense of the wealth level of neighborhoods in my city by who's out on the sidewalks on a summer weekday morning: skinny kids and overweight adults, all walking? Poor neighborhood. Skinny good-looking joggers? Rich neighborhood. The more attractive the average jogger, the richer it is.
- hx87 10y ago
  I grew up in a tony suburb. Sure, the average kid who lived in one wasn't obese (although their parents are another matter), but for every McMansion there are 1000 people who work in the Walmarts, Home Depots, and AutoZones, and obesity rates among them are sky high.
GunboatDiplomat 10y ago
If that were the case, childhood obesity would have risen like a missile in the 50's and 60's.

mcv 10y ago

> Additionally, the allure of walking everywhere quickly disappears when you have a 2 and 5 year old. Here's how Dutch parents solve that problem: https://www.babboe.be/media/easyslide/Babboe-City-Bakfiets-Tweewieler.jpg https://www.babboe.be/media/easyslide/Babboe-City-Bakfiets-T... Though a 2 year old can still go in a stroller, and the 5 year old can walk. (And some strollers these days come with a platform where the 5 year old can stand.)