6 ms·

Concur. American suburbs are my idea of hell. http://static1.squarespace.com/static/53dd6676e4b0fedfbc26ea91/54b6c509e4b062126976d942/54ad5ad3e4b04f59570fd36c/1

Concur. American suburbs are my idea of hell. http://static1.squarespace.com/static/53dd6676e4b0fedfbc26ea91/54b6c509e4b062126976d942/54ad5ad3e4b04f59570fd36c/1466619852190/?format=1500w http://static1.squarespace.com/static/53dd6676e4b0fedfbc26ea...

ocdtrekkie 10y ago
Yours. Plenty of us would rather the suburbs than... most anywhere else.
- aaronbrethorst 10y ago
  Honest question: why?
  - goseeastarwar 10y ago
    Backyards are extremely convenient, as opposed to walking/driving to a park, when you have dogs and/or small children.
    - lintiness 10y ago
      the suburbs are mostly about crime (none) and schools (much better). this entire thread is filled with pedantic bullshit from people who haven't got a clue.
  - hueving 10y ago
    Many people dislike the congestion, noise, and higher expense of space of the city. The average income of the US is like 50k. If you have a family of 4 the size of apartment you get on that income in a city is extremely cramped. Additionally, the allure of walking everywhere quickly disappears when you have a 2 and 5 year old.
    - pluma 10y ago
      To be fair, that has more to do with the US than with suburbia vs city. I'm European and I wouldn't want to live in a place like most US suburbs ever.
      - lintiness 10y ago
        you would if you had kids you cared about. the schools in suburban areas in the states are magnitudes better than comps in the city. there's a fucking reason people pay and pay dearly to live in those areas.
        pluma 10y ago
        You didn't read what I said. I wouldn't want to live in US suburbia. My wife and I actually live in two places right now because of our line of work: There's a 2BR apartment in a German city with about a million residents. It's not exactly downtown but definitely urban. It's actually slightly less central than the place I grew up but it's where we mostly stay when working on-site for clients in the region. We also live in a 3BR apartment in a German town with about 15k residents. When we have children, this is where they will grow up until we need a bigger place. I wouldn't want to live in US cities either, but for completely unrelated reasons. I'm more inclined to believe that it's possible to find a bearable place in urban regions in the US than in the traditional American cliché suburbia. Either way I'd prefer almost any apartment I've lived in (except for the tiny 1BR place we stayed when we were studying) over that.
        lintiness 10y ago
        320M people have managed to find places in our 3.8M sqare miles "bearable". did you learn about america from movies?
        hueving 10y ago
        It sounds like you are judging the entire US based on almost no information. The snobbish condescension is almost insufferable. Maybe try providing some interesting information in your comments about what it is that you don't like about US suburbia.
  - ocdtrekkie 10y ago
    Lacks the crowded bustle of the city, it's generally quiet when I walk outside. Yet I'm close enough to the city to take a train there if need be. Major events aren't far away, but aren't in my backyard. Crime rate is lower, police response time is incredible. I live in a condo, but even in a condo, drastically more space than you'd get in the city for less money. I feel I have a better quality of life in the suburbs on my income than someone with twice my salary would have living in the city. I get that it isn't for everyone, but every couple weeks HN has a 'the suburbs are awful' post, and I feel that's incredibly unwarranted. Urban vs. suburban vs. rural is a lifestyle choice and a preference.
hueving 10y ago
Many people buy houses for their utility, not because it makes them a special snowflake.
- aaronbrethorst 10y ago
  I live in an apartment in a major city for the utility and because it makes me happy. I am within walking distance of a cooperative food market, a Trader Joe's, and four supermarkets. I am within walking distance of dozens of bars, restaurants, concert venues, cafes, and bookstores. I can walk to my community darkroom, where I spend hours developing film and black and white prints. I can walk to work. It's between 1.67 and 2.5 miles each way, depending on the route. The walk back includes an elevation gain of about 300 feet, giving me a pretty decent cardio workout just by commuting. I drove briefly today because I had to go to purchase containers to store my overflowing material possessions (oh, irony). I was stuck in traffic, and it sucked. I love getting to bus, or take the light rail, or the street car, or walking. I love living in a dense neighborhood overflowing with interesting people and shops, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. If that makes me a special snowflake, then so be it.
  - hueving 10y ago
    This conversation is about architecture. Walkability of a neighborhood is a different discussion.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - thomasz 10y ago
      The architectural monoculture guarantees that there will never be a cafe, restaurant or bookstore.
      - hueving 10y ago
        That's not correct. Many of these housing developments specifically have sections zoned for small shopping areas that have precisely those things.
Asooka 10y ago
Suburbs would be a lot better if they had shops and stuff instead of endless rows of houses. Low-density housing is ok, but why not put down a small mall every few blocks with stores and apothecaries that stocks essentials and maybe has a cinema or an arcade.
- tirant 10y ago
  Why don't just live in a real city, with shops, pubs, parks, or centers to socialize almost everywhere? Being on a suburb like that feels like puttying your house on its own prison for houses.
  - GunboatDiplomat 10y ago
    Because the city is full of fucking people. Crowds, lines, innumerable traffic jams. Or... I can live outside the city, with less of all those things, and more green space, and I don't have to hear my neighbors through the wall.
- logfromblammo 10y ago
  Builders often include business expansion lots between the residences and the arterial road, purportedly for businesses like that. Hardly anyone ever buys one of the lots to build there until long after the area is already too developed to build a business building anywhere else. This indicates to me that developers tend to overvalue their owned lots near a neighborhood that they just filled with McMansions, almost as though they were selling lots that already had local businesses in them. They would do a lot better to just build the strip mall first, stick one franchised business in to anchor it, sell the house lots, then spin off the strip mall ownership into a separate business after 80% of the lots are built. The home builders see it as someone else's problem. The houses are their moneymaker, and the businesses can take care of themselves. It's almost as though they have never heard of loss leaders.
- Grishnakh 10y ago
  You're describing Phoenix, Arizona there. The city (and most of the surrounding cities, with the exception of downtown Phoenix itself and downtown Tempe) is divided into streets along a 1-mile grid system. The low-density housing is usually located in the interiors of these 1-square-mile blocks, while the corners usually have strip malls with pharmacies, small shops, grocery stores, and sometimes cinemas. (Arcade? Those are extremely rare these days. Usually you'll only see them at a large mall.)
majewsky 10y ago
I would go crazy trying to find a particular house in there. This is worse than Plattenbausiedlungen. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plattenbau https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plattenbau)
mcv 10y ago
The problem here is not the ugliness of the houses, but the fact that they all look alike. But you've got the exact same thing in other countries, except that in the US, they are detached, which in Netherland tends to be too expensive for middle incomes. Those who can afford detached houses, can afford unique houses. Here, identical houses come in long rows: http://www.vansantvoort.nl/wp-content/uploads/46_rijtjeshuis.large_.jpg http://www.vansantvoort.nl/wp-content/uploads/46_rijtjeshuis...
fl0wenol 10y ago
I know you're using that stock picture as an example of cookie-cutter-stepford-wives-american-hoa-creepiness, but taking a look at those from the air I see a really good use of interior space for low-slung structures, and some charming garden/enclosed deck/pool design going on. Looks like there's some real cozy gems in that neighborhood. You gotta get in your car to get most places, sure. But it could be much worse.

ocdtrekkie 10y ago

Yours. Plenty of us would rather the suburbs than... most anywhere else.

aaronbrethorst 10y ago
Honest question: why?
- goseeastarwar 10y ago
  Backyards are extremely convenient, as opposed to walking/driving to a park, when you have dogs and/or small children.
  - lintiness 10y ago
    the suburbs are mostly about crime (none) and schools (much better). this entire thread is filled with pedantic bullshit from people who haven't got a clue.
- hueving 10y ago
  Many people dislike the congestion, noise, and higher expense of space of the city. The average income of the US is like 50k. If you have a family of 4 the size of apartment you get on that income in a city is extremely cramped. Additionally, the allure of walking everywhere quickly disappears when you have a 2 and 5 year old.
  - pluma 10y ago
    To be fair, that has more to do with the US than with suburbia vs city. I'm European and I wouldn't want to live in a place like most US suburbs ever.
    - lintiness 10y ago
      you would if you had kids you cared about. the schools in suburban areas in the states are magnitudes better than comps in the city. there's a fucking reason people pay and pay dearly to live in those areas.
      - pluma 10y ago
        You didn't read what I said. I wouldn't want to live in US suburbia. My wife and I actually live in two places right now because of our line of work: There's a 2BR apartment in a German city with about a million residents. It's not exactly downtown but definitely urban. It's actually slightly less central than the place I grew up but it's where we mostly stay when working on-site for clients in the region. We also live in a 3BR apartment in a German town with about 15k residents. When we have children, this is where they will grow up until we need a bigger place. I wouldn't want to live in US cities either, but for completely unrelated reasons. I'm more inclined to believe that it's possible to find a bearable place in urban regions in the US than in the traditional American cliché suburbia. Either way I'd prefer almost any apartment I've lived in (except for the tiny 1BR place we stayed when we were studying) over that.
        lintiness 10y ago
        320M people have managed to find places in our 3.8M sqare miles "bearable". did you learn about america from movies?
        hueving 10y ago
        It sounds like you are judging the entire US based on almost no information. The snobbish condescension is almost insufferable. Maybe try providing some interesting information in your comments about what it is that you don't like about US suburbia.
- ocdtrekkie 10y ago
  Lacks the crowded bustle of the city, it's generally quiet when I walk outside. Yet I'm close enough to the city to take a train there if need be. Major events aren't far away, but aren't in my backyard. Crime rate is lower, police response time is incredible. I live in a condo, but even in a condo, drastically more space than you'd get in the city for less money. I feel I have a better quality of life in the suburbs on my income than someone with twice my salary would have living in the city. I get that it isn't for everyone, but every couple weeks HN has a 'the suburbs are awful' post, and I feel that's incredibly unwarranted. Urban vs. suburban vs. rural is a lifestyle choice and a preference.

hueving 10y ago

Many people buy houses for their utility, not because it makes them a special snowflake.

aaronbrethorst 10y ago
I live in an apartment in a major city for the utility and because it makes me happy. I am within walking distance of a cooperative food market, a Trader Joe's, and four supermarkets. I am within walking distance of dozens of bars, restaurants, concert venues, cafes, and bookstores. I can walk to my community darkroom, where I spend hours developing film and black and white prints. I can walk to work. It's between 1.67 and 2.5 miles each way, depending on the route. The walk back includes an elevation gain of about 300 feet, giving me a pretty decent cardio workout just by commuting. I drove briefly today because I had to go to purchase containers to store my overflowing material possessions (oh, irony). I was stuck in traffic, and it sucked. I love getting to bus, or take the light rail, or the street car, or walking. I love living in a dense neighborhood overflowing with interesting people and shops, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. If that makes me a special snowflake, then so be it.
- hueving 10y ago
  This conversation is about architecture. Walkability of a neighborhood is a different discussion.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - thomasz 10y ago
    The architectural monoculture guarantees that there will never be a cafe, restaurant or bookstore.
    - hueving 10y ago
      That's not correct. Many of these housing developments specifically have sections zoned for small shopping areas that have precisely those things.

Asooka 10y ago

Suburbs would be a lot better if they had shops and stuff instead of endless rows of houses. Low-density housing is ok, but why not put down a small mall every few blocks with stores and apothecaries that stocks essentials and maybe has a cinema or an arcade.

tirant 10y ago
Why don't just live in a real city, with shops, pubs, parks, or centers to socialize almost everywhere? Being on a suburb like that feels like puttying your house on its own prison for houses.
- GunboatDiplomat 10y ago
  Because the city is full of fucking people. Crowds, lines, innumerable traffic jams. Or... I can live outside the city, with less of all those things, and more green space, and I don't have to hear my neighbors through the wall.
logfromblammo 10y ago
Builders often include business expansion lots between the residences and the arterial road, purportedly for businesses like that. Hardly anyone ever buys one of the lots to build there until long after the area is already too developed to build a business building anywhere else. This indicates to me that developers tend to overvalue their owned lots near a neighborhood that they just filled with McMansions, almost as though they were selling lots that already had local businesses in them. They would do a lot better to just build the strip mall first, stick one franchised business in to anchor it, sell the house lots, then spin off the strip mall ownership into a separate business after 80% of the lots are built. The home builders see it as someone else's problem. The houses are their moneymaker, and the businesses can take care of themselves. It's almost as though they have never heard of loss leaders.
Grishnakh 10y ago
You're describing Phoenix, Arizona there. The city (and most of the surrounding cities, with the exception of downtown Phoenix itself and downtown Tempe) is divided into streets along a 1-mile grid system. The low-density housing is usually located in the interiors of these 1-square-mile blocks, while the corners usually have strip malls with pharmacies, small shops, grocery stores, and sometimes cinemas. (Arcade? Those are extremely rare these days. Usually you'll only see them at a large mall.)

majewsky 10y ago

I would go crazy trying to find a particular house in there. This is worse than Plattenbausiedlungen. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plattenbau https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plattenbau)

mcv 10y ago

The problem here is not the ugliness of the houses, but the fact that they all look alike. But you've got the exact same thing in other countries, except that in the US, they are detached, which in Netherland tends to be too expensive for middle incomes. Those who can afford detached houses, can afford unique houses. Here, identical houses come in long rows: http://www.vansantvoort.nl/wp-content/uploads/46_rijtjeshuis.large_.jpg http://www.vansantvoort.nl/wp-content/uploads/46_rijtjeshuis...

fl0wenol 10y ago

I know you're using that stock picture as an example of cookie-cutter-stepford-wives-american-hoa-creepiness, but taking a look at those from the air I see a really good use of interior space for low-slung structures, and some charming garden/enclosed deck/pool design going on. Looks like there's some real cozy gems in that neighborhood. You gotta get in your car to get most places, sure. But it could be much worse.