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I think NASA's use of "systems engineering" is more or less in line with how everyone except the software industry uses "systems engineering". You'll sometimes

I think NASA's use of "systems engineering" is more or less in line with how everyone except the software industry uses "systems engineering". You'll sometimes (not always) see "systems engineering" in the software industry refer to operating systems, or operating system like stuff (for example, game engines, certain types of real time application, etc). You'll also see it called 'systems programming'. In that context, I can understand why the standard systems engineering role might be considered more 'managementish'. In most large roles, systems engineers are at least one step removed from the majority of design. In many ways, he works on an abstraction layer of the design, but also provides abstraction layers to the other engineers he works with or DIRECTS.

solotronics 10y ago
I am a 'systems engineer' for an ISP and my role is a combination of two things 1. software development for distributed programs that manage the network 2. sys admin type things
- tjl 10y ago
  That's what most software people think my "systems design engineering" degrees are about, but my program fits the NASA definition much better. It's quite frustrating.
tjl 10y ago
I graduated from a "systems design engineering" program. In it, we had courses in human factors, mechanical engineering, electrical/computer engineering, graph theory, software development, and you could branch out from there as you wanted. Unfortunately, people seem to think that it means I'm a software developer, in IT, or something along those lines. It's quite unfortunate as both my Master's and Ph.D. were more towards mechanical engineering.
- mch82 10y ago
  Unless you're working in the Aerospace & Defense, Healthcare Device, or Automotive industries this will continue to be a problem for some time. It's okay to use equivalent language when seeking out jobs. Try looking for "product design" or "product management" roles that emphasize technical competency. Reach out to INCOSE and IISE professional organizations for help. Those organizations exist to represent your skill set to industry. Challenge them to improve recruiter and human resources recognition of the term "Systems Engineer".
  - tjl 10y ago
    I didn't know about INCOSE or IISE, so thanks. I've been a member of ASME since I was presenting at their conferences and submitting to their journals as a grad student given the material was focused on mechanical (and textile) engineering. I didn't look for any dedicated systems organizations. Product Management is what most of our graduates end up doing, but they're usually doing it in software jobs. That said, we have a number of patent and IP lawyers come out of our program and a lot of people go into medicine or biomedical. The latter since we have a dedicated biomedical option as we have a number of faculty in that area.
- icegreentea 10y ago
  Did you go to waterloo? I'm in the exact same boat =P. I'm currently dual hatted as a system's engineer and software developer, so people are always inadvertently right when they ask me that question.
  - tjl 10y ago
    Yes, I did. In fact, if you're a recent grad you probably had me as your TA at some point as I was a TA throughout most of my grad school and did core courses.

solotronics 10y ago

I am a 'systems engineer' for an ISP and my role is a combination of two things 1. software development for distributed programs that manage the network 2. sys admin type things

tjl 10y ago
That's what most software people think my "systems design engineering" degrees are about, but my program fits the NASA definition much better. It's quite frustrating.

tjl 10y ago

I graduated from a "systems design engineering" program. In it, we had courses in human factors, mechanical engineering, electrical/computer engineering, graph theory, software development, and you could branch out from there as you wanted. Unfortunately, people seem to think that it means I'm a software developer, in IT, or something along those lines. It's quite unfortunate as both my Master's and Ph.D. were more towards mechanical engineering.

mch82 10y ago
Unless you're working in the Aerospace & Defense, Healthcare Device, or Automotive industries this will continue to be a problem for some time. It's okay to use equivalent language when seeking out jobs. Try looking for "product design" or "product management" roles that emphasize technical competency. Reach out to INCOSE and IISE professional organizations for help. Those organizations exist to represent your skill set to industry. Challenge them to improve recruiter and human resources recognition of the term "Systems Engineer".
- tjl 10y ago
  I didn't know about INCOSE or IISE, so thanks. I've been a member of ASME since I was presenting at their conferences and submitting to their journals as a grad student given the material was focused on mechanical (and textile) engineering. I didn't look for any dedicated systems organizations. Product Management is what most of our graduates end up doing, but they're usually doing it in software jobs. That said, we have a number of patent and IP lawyers come out of our program and a lot of people go into medicine or biomedical. The latter since we have a dedicated biomedical option as we have a number of faculty in that area.
icegreentea 10y ago
Did you go to waterloo? I'm in the exact same boat =P. I'm currently dual hatted as a system's engineer and software developer, so people are always inadvertently right when they ask me that question.
- tjl 10y ago
  Yes, I did. In fact, if you're a recent grad you probably had me as your TA at some point as I was a TA throughout most of my grad school and did core courses.