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I doubt the whole of Europe will ever eat Halal. Or, at least, I hope not. Personally, I find the method of slaughter cruel (slicing the throat and waiting for

by tomp 10y ago

I doubt the whole of Europe will ever eat Halal. Or, at least, I hope not. Personally, I find the method of slaughter cruel (slicing the throat and waiting for the blood to drain - granted, the animal can be stunned, but there were plenty of footages of animals being tortured instead), and discriminatory (has to be performed by a Muslim, Jew or Christian). I actively avoid eating Halal meat.

Reason077 10y ago
In the UK, the law requires all animals to be stunned before slaughter - except in the case of religious slaughter (Kosher and Halal), where stunning may be contrary to religious practice. It can be hard to avoid eating Halal meat, because there is no requirement that Halal meat is labeled as such. Meat from Halal slaughter ends up in the regular supply chain. The vast majority of New Zealand lamb, for example, is Halal - but isn't typically labeled as such. https://www.rspca.org.uk/ImageLocator/LocateAsset?asset=document&assetId=1232719611043&mode=prd https://www.rspca.org.uk/ImageLocator/LocateAsset?asset=docu...
- omginternets 10y ago
  Same in France, sadly. I suspect much of the EU works in this way.
SyneRyder 10y ago
I think there are other reasons that will also stop it happening. We used to be frequent customers of a fast food store near us, who switched to sourcing Halal chicken for their product. Seems like a good idea (increase marketshare, provide a new service to an unserved community), but the Halal chicken was extremely dry & flavourless. It ruined our enjoyment of the food and we stopped going (after being customers for almost a decade), especially as new competitors with tastier non-Halal offerings started opening. The store closed some months afterwards.
- g8oz 10y ago
  Sounds like there is a bad competitive situation in the halal wholesale market in your area. The store owner should have taken that in to account.
venomsnake 10y ago
Sadly the state deference too much to religion based requests (we are talking any religion here). I personally want it to be the other way around - religion changes to adapt to the state it is in. But we as a society need to stomp our foot to the ground to make it happen.
tomjen3 10y ago
In Denmark roughly 100% of the chicken is halal, but it is illegal to slaughter the animals by cutting of their head without sedating them, so in practice the only thing that changes is some imam saying an islamic prayer over the chickens. Of course, that is too expensive, so now there is a recording of an islamic prayer over a loudspeaker. Which is also the problem I had with the article: his rule only works when complying with the minority is cheap (playing a recording), if a halal chicken also had to have decent living standards making it 4 times as expensive, there would be a lot fewer halal chickens.
- melvinmt 10y ago
  The article explicitly mentions that if the cost is too high, the minority rule will not apply, but good observation nonetheless.
  - tomjen3 10y ago
    I should have been more explicit: I felt he glossed over that limitation way too quickly, because it puts a severe limit on the "damage" the minority can cause.
tajen 10y ago
I actively avoid anything Islam-related (I'm in France). It may sound racist (and it may be) but France seems to be actively denying my identity as a Christian. As a side note, there are about 55% Christians and 7% Muslims in France. We've been removing any reference to Christianity in state-related documents - which is fine but let's see some examples: Christmas holidays are renamed "End-of-year Holidays", just like Easter holidays are now "Spring holidays", and we're removing Christian days off here and there. Street names are renamed, churches aren't always maintained by Christian-adverse mayors. On the other side, every vegetable mix is now a "tajin", often halal, the state is funding Mosques, and our streets fill up with women with the foulard (that thing to hide hair), our beaches with women in burkini, and males have Arabic dresses and beards. When there is some sand on the floor, you'd believe you were on the other side of the Mediterranean. Upon football matches, they burn the French flag. Most leftish people insist that we should encourage this because "tolerance" (Fraternité). At the same time when they're introduced to a Christian they go on and on about priests raping kids and the Spanish inquisition. Ok, I get it, as a Christian I'm a murderer, and television headline news enjoy a lot conveying arguments against Christian representants. I have the feeling that tolerance, mutual understanding and equality of chances only goes towards the 7% Muslims. Same goes for women. Someone else in the thread pointed to a link which "10 sexist things", saying they didn't see them as sexist. I don't know, if there are fewer women in IT, it could also be that programming is hard and few people can live the life of a good programmer. Meanwhile all girls of my Engineering school were promoted way before men, and get a better salary than men I know, while having usually less technical knowledge. It doesn't match the usual message that feminists tell, but stats aren't built to find such results. Once again equality only strikes one way and women don't have to work as hard as men to succeed. So how can we stop harassing the white, the Christian, the male, the hard workers? Do I really have to vote for that extremist party, or could women and Muslims have a bit of tolerance and check we still have an equality of work/results ratio even though we're white? Goes back to running my own company, because I was never promoted while employed
- tajen 10y ago
  Replying to myself: It feels very strange receiving 5 upvotes for the comment above. My speech wasn't particularly open-minded nor generous, although it could be shared by others, and I was rather expecting to be shown another perspective about the topic. It feels like I'm stealing from the evil's upvotes ;)

by tomp 10y ago

Reason077 10y ago

In the UK, the law requires all animals to be stunned before slaughter - except in the case of religious slaughter (Kosher and Halal), where stunning may be contrary to religious practice. It can be hard to avoid eating Halal meat, because there is no requirement that Halal meat is labeled as such. Meat from Halal slaughter ends up in the regular supply chain. The vast majority of New Zealand lamb, for example, is Halal - but isn't typically labeled as such. https://www.rspca.org.uk/ImageLocator/LocateAsset?asset=document&assetId=1232719611043&mode=prd https://www.rspca.org.uk/ImageLocator/LocateAsset?asset=docu...

omginternets 10y ago
Same in France, sadly. I suspect much of the EU works in this way.

SyneRyder 10y ago

I think there are other reasons that will also stop it happening. We used to be frequent customers of a fast food store near us, who switched to sourcing Halal chicken for their product. Seems like a good idea (increase marketshare, provide a new service to an unserved community), but the Halal chicken was extremely dry & flavourless. It ruined our enjoyment of the food and we stopped going (after being customers for almost a decade), especially as new competitors with tastier non-Halal offerings started opening. The store closed some months afterwards.

g8oz 10y ago
Sounds like there is a bad competitive situation in the halal wholesale market in your area. The store owner should have taken that in to account.

venomsnake 10y ago

Sadly the state deference too much to religion based requests (we are talking any religion here). I personally want it to be the other way around - religion changes to adapt to the state it is in. But we as a society need to stomp our foot to the ground to make it happen.

tomjen3 10y ago

In Denmark roughly 100% of the chicken is halal, but it is illegal to slaughter the animals by cutting of their head without sedating them, so in practice the only thing that changes is some imam saying an islamic prayer over the chickens. Of course, that is too expensive, so now there is a recording of an islamic prayer over a loudspeaker. Which is also the problem I had with the article: his rule only works when complying with the minority is cheap (playing a recording), if a halal chicken also had to have decent living standards making it 4 times as expensive, there would be a lot fewer halal chickens.

melvinmt 10y ago
The article explicitly mentions that if the cost is too high, the minority rule will not apply, but good observation nonetheless.
- tomjen3 10y ago
  I should have been more explicit: I felt he glossed over that limitation way too quickly, because it puts a severe limit on the "damage" the minority can cause.

tajen 10y ago

I actively avoid anything Islam-related (I'm in France). It may sound racist (and it may be) but France seems to be actively denying my identity as a Christian. As a side note, there are about 55% Christians and 7% Muslims in France. We've been removing any reference to Christianity in state-related documents - which is fine but let's see some examples: Christmas holidays are renamed "End-of-year Holidays", just like Easter holidays are now "Spring holidays", and we're removing Christian days off here and there. Street names are renamed, churches aren't always maintained by Christian-adverse mayors. On the other side, every vegetable mix is now a "tajin", often halal, the state is funding Mosques, and our streets fill up with women with the foulard (that thing to hide hair), our beaches with women in burkini, and males have Arabic dresses and beards. When there is some sand on the floor, you'd believe you were on the other side of the Mediterranean. Upon football matches, they burn the French flag. Most leftish people insist that we should encourage this because "tolerance" (Fraternité). At the same time when they're introduced to a Christian they go on and on about priests raping kids and the Spanish inquisition. Ok, I get it, as a Christian I'm a murderer, and television headline news enjoy a lot conveying arguments against Christian representants. I have the feeling that tolerance, mutual understanding and equality of chances only goes towards the 7% Muslims. Same goes for women. Someone else in the thread pointed to a link which "10 sexist things", saying they didn't see them as sexist. I don't know, if there are fewer women in IT, it could also be that programming is hard and few people can live the life of a good programmer. Meanwhile all girls of my Engineering school were promoted way before men, and get a better salary than men I know, while having usually less technical knowledge. It doesn't match the usual message that feminists tell, but stats aren't built to find such results. Once again equality only strikes one way and women don't have to work as hard as men to succeed. So how can we stop harassing the white, the Christian, the male, the hard workers? Do I really have to vote for that extremist party, or could women and Muslims have a bit of tolerance and check we still have an equality of work/results ratio even though we're white? Goes back to running my own company, because I was never promoted while employed

tajen 10y ago
Replying to myself: It feels very strange receiving 5 upvotes for the comment above. My speech wasn't particularly open-minded nor generous, although it could be shared by others, and I was rather expecting to be shown another perspective about the topic. It feels like I'm stealing from the evil's upvotes ;)