4 ms·

Agree... flattery is a reasonable way to a person's heart, particularly when it's justified by the person's success and your own low station.

lsc 17y ago
really? I mean I suppose it depends on the person. Personally, I find being on the receiving end of obvious flattery to be distinctly uncomfortable, and I'm beginning to get a fair amount of that myself. Personally, (and I think this might be true of most people who are primarily technical) if a less experienced person wants my help, the best way to get it is to ask an interesting question in a way that shows you have made experience-appropriate progress solving the problem yourself. (That, or offer to work for me for cheap.)
- evansolomon 17y ago
  I am admittedly not primarily technical, but I don't see that as relevant here. If someone actually has a legitimate way to add value to the person they're asking for help from, then that's great. Often that's not going to be the case though, and trying to fake that is (for me) a recipe for disaster. To go back to the example of offering an idea to help with whatever, that's really just going to be a waste of time for most people. I'd much prefer the person simply say they want x/y/z and would like to meet or talk. Call it obvious flattery, it's also honest and efficient.
  - lsc 17y ago
    "if a less experienced person wants my help, the best way to get it is to ask an interesting question in a way that shows you have made experience-appropriate progress solving the problem yourself. " So, I'm not trying to say a less experienced person should come up with something to try to help the more experienced person; I'm saying that if a less experienced person wants me to help them, they should show that they are likely to get it done with minimal hand holding from me. Helping other people is fun, but I'm only going to do it if it's not that much work for me and it's only satisfying if they pull through and get the thing done. In a way I may be agreeing with your initial post; it's just that you don't flatter technical people by complementing them; that just makes us feel weird. you flatter technical people by asking their opinion/knowledge, or letting them help you in ways that are easy for them. (the line between flattery and asking for free help is a thin one. A lot of that depends on the more experienced person's assessment of the less experienced person's potential and ability. it also has to do with the level of responsibility expected of the more experienced person; if you expect me to keep track, organize, or follow through on something, that's /work/ and I expect to get paid. If you want to ask my opinion on how to solve an interesting question, that's fun, and it's somewhat flattering that you think my yammerings are useful. a paper could be written on when it is good to ask for free help, and when it is bad to do so. )
    - evansolomon 17y ago
      "you don't flatter technical people by complementing them; that just makes us feel weird" Honestly it sounds like we are very nearly on the same page, though this quote is a bit odd to me. I don't think it's fair to define "technical people" by saying that compliments make them feel weird. I should point out that I'm not the one that has talked about flattering as a tactic. I think we completely agree on having something interesting to talk about as a helpful quality.

lsc 17y ago

really? I mean I suppose it depends on the person. Personally, I find being on the receiving end of obvious flattery to be distinctly uncomfortable, and I'm beginning to get a fair amount of that myself. Personally, (and I think this might be true of most people who are primarily technical) if a less experienced person wants my help, the best way to get it is to ask an interesting question in a way that shows you have made experience-appropriate progress solving the problem yourself. (That, or offer to work for me for cheap.)

evansolomon 17y ago
I am admittedly not primarily technical, but I don't see that as relevant here. If someone actually has a legitimate way to add value to the person they're asking for help from, then that's great. Often that's not going to be the case though, and trying to fake that is (for me) a recipe for disaster. To go back to the example of offering an idea to help with whatever, that's really just going to be a waste of time for most people. I'd much prefer the person simply say they want x/y/z and would like to meet or talk. Call it obvious flattery, it's also honest and efficient.
- lsc 17y ago
  "if a less experienced person wants my help, the best way to get it is to ask an interesting question in a way that shows you have made experience-appropriate progress solving the problem yourself. " So, I'm not trying to say a less experienced person should come up with something to try to help the more experienced person; I'm saying that if a less experienced person wants me to help them, they should show that they are likely to get it done with minimal hand holding from me. Helping other people is fun, but I'm only going to do it if it's not that much work for me and it's only satisfying if they pull through and get the thing done. In a way I may be agreeing with your initial post; it's just that you don't flatter technical people by complementing them; that just makes us feel weird. you flatter technical people by asking their opinion/knowledge, or letting them help you in ways that are easy for them. (the line between flattery and asking for free help is a thin one. A lot of that depends on the more experienced person's assessment of the less experienced person's potential and ability. it also has to do with the level of responsibility expected of the more experienced person; if you expect me to keep track, organize, or follow through on something, that's /work/ and I expect to get paid. If you want to ask my opinion on how to solve an interesting question, that's fun, and it's somewhat flattering that you think my yammerings are useful. a paper could be written on when it is good to ask for free help, and when it is bad to do so. )
  - evansolomon 17y ago
    "you don't flatter technical people by complementing them; that just makes us feel weird" Honestly it sounds like we are very nearly on the same page, though this quote is a bit odd to me. I don't think it's fair to define "technical people" by saying that compliments make them feel weird. I should point out that I'm not the one that has talked about flattering as a tactic. I think we completely agree on having something interesting to talk about as a helpful quality.