7 ms·

The point in this particular case is that Rhode Island has become a bedroom community for Boston, so improving transportation links between the two can make RI

by niftich 10y ago

The point in this particular case is that Rhode Island has become a bedroom community for Boston, so improving transportation links between the two can make RI even more attractive to discretionary residents (who come here because they want to, not because they can't find anything better -- which is a byword for higher-income residents), who can stimulate both residential and commercial growth by their presence. It's a reasonable suggestion. Another alternative is that RI could promote business growth to lure away some MA or CT talent. But whether they want to be a swankier, higher-income commuter suburb or a commercial-heavy exurb they really should do something.

jseliger 10y ago
The point in this particular case is that Rhode Island has become a bedroom community for Boston Yeah. Some friends moved from Cambridge to Providence, and in Providence they're a five-minute walk from the train station. They can be at South Station in 45 – 50 minutes. They live in a nice, newly-constructed two-bedroom apartment that's a little more than half the cost of their previous, cramped Cambridge apartment.
- jghn 10y ago
  It's convenient but there's still a tradeoff. Even once you get to South Station, unless you work right there you then have to have your secondary commute inside the city. I work in Kendall Sq so for me it'd tack on at least another 15 minutes. In contrast it normally takes me 15-25 minutes total for my commute as is. That's a big time savings. I also have a lot more flexibility, for instance not needing to worry about catching the last train at night if I'm out with my friends or something like that. For me, I'd rather pay more money for the proximity and flexibility but I agree that YMMV and that for others it makes a ton of sense to go to Providence. And really, I'd much rather go to Providence than a standard suburb because at least I get some of the benefits of urban life there.
  - acomjean 10y ago
    This is so true. Boston transit leaves a lot to be desired. Even once you get there on commuter rail. There are 2 commuter rail stations and they're not connected. They are trying to connect though even with the advocacy of two former govenors, but the current government is resisting (http://www.northsouthraillink.org/ http://www.northsouthraillink.org/). I live in Cambridge MA and commute to Boston (3.5 miles by bike). The fastest I can get to longwood Boston is about 25 minutes on a bike. Bus is 45 minutes. Coworkers that have spaces can get from just outside 128 to Boston in slightly over an hour. The few places with decent access to the city the prices are going through the roof.
    - jghn 10y ago
      Depending on where in Cambridge longwood isn't terrible as long as the sox aren't in town and tie schedule is flexible. I used to live in central and took the 47 to longwood with decent results minus game days. The north south connector will never happen, the big dig fiasco saw to that. :(
      - bogomipz 10y ago
        Considering theres 81 home games between April and Sept, thats a lot of "terrible", during the only nice(weather-wise)months of the year there. What did they spend on the "Big Dig"? 20 Billion dollars all said and done? "They" of course being the US tax payer who paid for it, not just Mass residents. Seems like that money might have been better spent on public transit infrastructure. So typical.
        jghn 10y ago
        Well, yeah. Fair point :) This was also in the days before bus trackers which made life extra interesting. On game days I'd often just start walking home and would wait and see if the bus caught up with me. These days it might not be quite so bad.
- om42 10y ago
  That's over 2 hours of commuting each day, assuming everything is on time. Do they use the 2 hours (mostly on the commuter rail) to get work done? Could be interesting to see the trade off between 2 hours in a train versus 1 hour driving each day. You still have the freedom of doing other tasks while on the train. Also how is their social life? The commuter rail has strict hours and doesn't run at night. Probably not much to do in Providence compared to Boston/Cambridge.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - heydenberk 10y ago
    The train between Boston and Providence is usually faster than driving even when there is no traffic, and Boston often has pretty bad traffic.
  - planetmcd 10y ago
    Providence proper is pretty nice, this restaurant, bar scene and music. Pawtucket, not as much so.
- pselbert 10y ago
  Work time on a train is something I cherish. There are no interruptions and no internet access (at least on the Metra in Chicago). That makes it ideal for writing or other endeavors that require concentration. Walking to and from a train is also a great way to wake up and get a little exertion in before a work day. Taking a train, even when it takes 45 minutes, is a far cry from driving the same commute. It's a great gig if you can make it work.
  - superuser2 10y ago
    For context: the Metra has conductors on board. It never smells like urine, people aren't blasting music on their shitty phone speakers, the seats are in pairs facing forward instead of benches facing inward (so you get a personal space bubble and no need to avoid looking straight ahead), and you can almost always find one to sit in. Unfortunately, these are rare characteristics for urban transit systems.
__derek__ 10y ago
The opposition of those two choices underscores how bizarre American regional divisions are. The Boston area covers parts of Massachusetts, Connecticut, and New Hampshire and all of Rhode Island. Rather than attempting to improve the entire region, the available options are zero-sum: RI would cannibalize the business or income tax base of other parts of the Boston area. This, in turn, encourages the MA and CT governments to do what they can to recover that loss. If there were one regional government, that could be avoided by focusing decisions about infrastructure, housing, services, and taxation on the actual region's health.
- niftich 10y ago
  You're not wrong, but this doesn't just happen in America, and it doesn't just happen at the city, county, or state level. There are entire countries or overseas departments of countries that cannibalize tax bases of others, some in corporate taxes, some in personal taxes. There are countries that, due to low wages, low cost of living, and low worker protections, can manufacture certain goods really cheap. There are countries that can ruin their countryside extracting resources like copper, rare earth metals, or oil and sell it internationally. Ultimately regardless of what the territorial unit, each unit looks out for their self-interest, because a 'Unified Greater Boston' may result in more growth, but it will likely come with a different allocation on wealth to the particular area that each fiefdom covers. It's really just capitalism where each entity competes with another, and some win really big, while most don't.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - __derek__ 10y ago
    No, it's not a uniquely American phenomenon, but that's the example at hand and the one that I'm most familiar with.
  - Symbiote 10y ago
    As an example of a better situation, London covers the cities and many smaller towns and suburbs, which each have their own local government. The local areas are responsible for schools, waste, most planning etc. But it's all unified under the Greater London Authority, which controls transport and policing. This is what the Mayor of London controls, as head of the elected London Assembly.
tossaway1 10y ago
> RI could promote business growth They tried that and it was a bit of a disaster... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/38_Studios https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/38_Studios
- jsferrei 10y ago
  Total disaster. But it is possible to promote business growth without loaning $75 million out to a guy with no previous business experience (never mind technology company experience), right?
  - __derek__ 10y ago
    Yes, although it's similarly hard to run a program to promote growth without experience running that sort of program.

by niftich 10y ago

jseliger 10y ago

The point in this particular case is that Rhode Island has become a bedroom community for Boston Yeah. Some friends moved from Cambridge to Providence, and in Providence they're a five-minute walk from the train station. They can be at South Station in 45 – 50 minutes. They live in a nice, newly-constructed two-bedroom apartment that's a little more than half the cost of their previous, cramped Cambridge apartment.

jghn 10y ago
It's convenient but there's still a tradeoff. Even once you get to South Station, unless you work right there you then have to have your secondary commute inside the city. I work in Kendall Sq so for me it'd tack on at least another 15 minutes. In contrast it normally takes me 15-25 minutes total for my commute as is. That's a big time savings. I also have a lot more flexibility, for instance not needing to worry about catching the last train at night if I'm out with my friends or something like that. For me, I'd rather pay more money for the proximity and flexibility but I agree that YMMV and that for others it makes a ton of sense to go to Providence. And really, I'd much rather go to Providence than a standard suburb because at least I get some of the benefits of urban life there.
- acomjean 10y ago
  This is so true. Boston transit leaves a lot to be desired. Even once you get there on commuter rail. There are 2 commuter rail stations and they're not connected. They are trying to connect though even with the advocacy of two former govenors, but the current government is resisting (http://www.northsouthraillink.org/ http://www.northsouthraillink.org/). I live in Cambridge MA and commute to Boston (3.5 miles by bike). The fastest I can get to longwood Boston is about 25 minutes on a bike. Bus is 45 minutes. Coworkers that have spaces can get from just outside 128 to Boston in slightly over an hour. The few places with decent access to the city the prices are going through the roof.
  - jghn 10y ago
    Depending on where in Cambridge longwood isn't terrible as long as the sox aren't in town and tie schedule is flexible. I used to live in central and took the 47 to longwood with decent results minus game days. The north south connector will never happen, the big dig fiasco saw to that. :(
    - bogomipz 10y ago
      Considering theres 81 home games between April and Sept, thats a lot of "terrible", during the only nice(weather-wise)months of the year there. What did they spend on the "Big Dig"? 20 Billion dollars all said and done? "They" of course being the US tax payer who paid for it, not just Mass residents. Seems like that money might have been better spent on public transit infrastructure. So typical.
      - jghn 10y ago
        Well, yeah. Fair point :) This was also in the days before bus trackers which made life extra interesting. On game days I'd often just start walking home and would wait and see if the bus caught up with me. These days it might not be quite so bad.
om42 10y ago
That's over 2 hours of commuting each day, assuming everything is on time. Do they use the 2 hours (mostly on the commuter rail) to get work done? Could be interesting to see the trade off between 2 hours in a train versus 1 hour driving each day. You still have the freedom of doing other tasks while on the train. Also how is their social life? The commuter rail has strict hours and doesn't run at night. Probably not much to do in Providence compared to Boston/Cambridge.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- heydenberk 10y ago
  The train between Boston and Providence is usually faster than driving even when there is no traffic, and Boston often has pretty bad traffic.
- planetmcd 10y ago
  Providence proper is pretty nice, this restaurant, bar scene and music. Pawtucket, not as much so.
pselbert 10y ago
Work time on a train is something I cherish. There are no interruptions and no internet access (at least on the Metra in Chicago). That makes it ideal for writing or other endeavors that require concentration. Walking to and from a train is also a great way to wake up and get a little exertion in before a work day. Taking a train, even when it takes 45 minutes, is a far cry from driving the same commute. It's a great gig if you can make it work.
- superuser2 10y ago
  For context: the Metra has conductors on board. It never smells like urine, people aren't blasting music on their shitty phone speakers, the seats are in pairs facing forward instead of benches facing inward (so you get a personal space bubble and no need to avoid looking straight ahead), and you can almost always find one to sit in. Unfortunately, these are rare characteristics for urban transit systems.

__derek__ 10y ago

The opposition of those two choices underscores how bizarre American regional divisions are. The Boston area covers parts of Massachusetts, Connecticut, and New Hampshire and all of Rhode Island. Rather than attempting to improve the entire region, the available options are zero-sum: RI would cannibalize the business or income tax base of other parts of the Boston area. This, in turn, encourages the MA and CT governments to do what they can to recover that loss. If there were one regional government, that could be avoided by focusing decisions about infrastructure, housing, services, and taxation on the actual region's health.

niftich 10y ago
You're not wrong, but this doesn't just happen in America, and it doesn't just happen at the city, county, or state level. There are entire countries or overseas departments of countries that cannibalize tax bases of others, some in corporate taxes, some in personal taxes. There are countries that, due to low wages, low cost of living, and low worker protections, can manufacture certain goods really cheap. There are countries that can ruin their countryside extracting resources like copper, rare earth metals, or oil and sell it internationally. Ultimately regardless of what the territorial unit, each unit looks out for their self-interest, because a 'Unified Greater Boston' may result in more growth, but it will likely come with a different allocation on wealth to the particular area that each fiefdom covers. It's really just capitalism where each entity competes with another, and some win really big, while most don't.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- __derek__ 10y ago
  No, it's not a uniquely American phenomenon, but that's the example at hand and the one that I'm most familiar with.
- Symbiote 10y ago
  As an example of a better situation, London covers the cities and many smaller towns and suburbs, which each have their own local government. The local areas are responsible for schools, waste, most planning etc. But it's all unified under the Greater London Authority, which controls transport and policing. This is what the Mayor of London controls, as head of the elected London Assembly.

tossaway1 10y ago

> RI could promote business growth They tried that and it was a bit of a disaster... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/38_Studios https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/38_Studios

jsferrei 10y ago
Total disaster. But it is possible to promote business growth without loaning $75 million out to a guy with no previous business experience (never mind technology company experience), right?
- __derek__ 10y ago
  Yes, although it's similarly hard to run a program to promote growth without experience running that sort of program.