4 ms·

I wish every city gave money to people to returned bottles to a bottle depot. For those not familiar: Buyers of recyclables pay a recycling deposit up front and

I wish every city gave money to people to returned bottles to a bottle depot. For those not familiar: Buyers of recyclables pay a recycling deposit up front and any one who returns the recyclables will get the deposit back. It would also be fascinating to provide transportation for the homeless to the nearest garbage dumps. Pay them for sorting out any recyclables. Allow them to take anything which might be of use to them.

coredog64 10y ago
My grandfather used to manage a solid waste disposal station in Palo Alto. He got to be friends with a number of homeless men who made their living doing just that. The one guy I remember best (Bert) lived out of his 56 Chevy station wagon. He would dumpster dive for electronics and disassemble them to get at what had recycling value. Really you don't want to do that at the dump though, as by that time useful items have been commingled with actual trash. Another memorable story is that there was one worker who couldn't deal with glass bottles if they had any liquid in them and would just freak out and put them in with the trash.
ende 10y ago
The problem with programs like these is that they tend to incentivize nefarious "scavenging" of lower hanging fruit such as bikes and other private property. The type of supervised work described in this article seems like a much better approach.
andrewljohnson 10y ago
You must not live in Berkeley. Thanks to a recycling center placed in town, "independent recyclers" roam the streets, collect all the recycling from people's bins on trash days, and it's a terrible situation for both the collectors and other residents. While collecting the recycling, the collectors steal (from my family multiple times), root through unlocked cars, knife open garbage bags, trespass, wake up sleeping people, and act aggressively towards anyone who interferes. The collectors themselves live outside of the system of taxes and services, have no safety equipment to to protect them from broken glass etc, and end up in a constant cycle of unemployment, drug dependence, and other ills. I feel like Berkeley manufactured this "picker" existence - it's an externality of trying to be the most progressive recycling town, and it's no good for anyone involved.
- AWildDHHAppears 10y ago
  Exactly right. People _steal_ recyclables in my area, too, and many Progressives seem fine with theft and the unreported income that results. We have many other criminal acts (which have been caught on camera) associated with this, including rummaging through cars and package theft. When "three strikes" was foolishly overturned by pro-crime Californians, the amount that you have to steal to be charged with a felony also increased. So people can steal items from cars and doorsteps, in addition to recyclables, and never have to worry about spending a day in prison.
  - ethanbond 10y ago
    Are you actually being defensive about your garbage being your property?
    - 100k 10y ago
      The problem most people have with "stealing" garbage are that it makes a mess (some scavengers are more polite than others -- I don't have problems in my neighborhood). The other issue I've heard of is that the companies that collect recycling get money for them, too, and this is factored into their contract with the city. So when independent operators take the recycling it cuts into their revenue and upsets the government.
    - AWildDHHAppears 10y ago
      No. I am concerned about the city's property being stolen. The recyclables belong to the city once I leave it out for recycling. They collect the value from it, including any deposit value. As a Taxpayer, I want this value to go to the city.
      - ethanbond 10y ago
        Ah what a bummer. A well articulated argument followed up by lame ad hominem. Have a good night!
  - runamok 10y ago
vidarh 10y ago
Norway has an interesting approach to the bottle return. There is a tax on beverage containers of all types. This tax is reduced to be inversely proportional to return rates when return rates exceeds a certain level. So return rate of 40% means the seller pays only 60%. There is an additional charge on all containers that are not recyclable, regardless of the return rate. There is then a recycling scheme that retailers can participate in which involves bottle collection and centralised reuse (glass bottles in good condition only) and recycling (glass and plastic bottles) and redemption. As a result of the high return rates coupled with the tax reduction, most larger stores etc. have machines you can feed bottles for store credit, and at least when I was a kid pretty much any corner store etc. would also take bottles and pay out cash. This ability to return and redeem everywhere made picking bottles a simple way of making extra cash without having to go somewhere. When I was a kid it was a go-to way of supplementing my allowance, and you'd also see homeless people and retired people etc. doing it. It's given Norway a return rate for glass bottles of 99%, and an overall return rate for recyclable beverage containers of 95%, which is well in excess of most places with bottle return programs. Retailers have strong incentives to participate in the recycling programs to reduce their tax, especially given that all their competitors does too, and people expect to be able to return their bottles at the same time as making their purchases - if you don't participate in the return program, you force your customers to make an extra trip if shopping with you. The fee used to be quite substantial, though I believe it makes up a smaller percentage of most beverages now as I don't think (I haven't lived in Norway the last 16 years) the redemption rate has kept up with inflation. When I was a kid at one point the bottle return for 0.5l bottles of soda was about 5% of the purchase price.

coredog64 10y ago

My grandfather used to manage a solid waste disposal station in Palo Alto. He got to be friends with a number of homeless men who made their living doing just that. The one guy I remember best (Bert) lived out of his 56 Chevy station wagon. He would dumpster dive for electronics and disassemble them to get at what had recycling value. Really you don't want to do that at the dump though, as by that time useful items have been commingled with actual trash. Another memorable story is that there was one worker who couldn't deal with glass bottles if they had any liquid in them and would just freak out and put them in with the trash.

ende 10y ago

The problem with programs like these is that they tend to incentivize nefarious "scavenging" of lower hanging fruit such as bikes and other private property. The type of supervised work described in this article seems like a much better approach.

andrewljohnson 10y ago

You must not live in Berkeley. Thanks to a recycling center placed in town, "independent recyclers" roam the streets, collect all the recycling from people's bins on trash days, and it's a terrible situation for both the collectors and other residents. While collecting the recycling, the collectors steal (from my family multiple times), root through unlocked cars, knife open garbage bags, trespass, wake up sleeping people, and act aggressively towards anyone who interferes. The collectors themselves live outside of the system of taxes and services, have no safety equipment to to protect them from broken glass etc, and end up in a constant cycle of unemployment, drug dependence, and other ills. I feel like Berkeley manufactured this "picker" existence - it's an externality of trying to be the most progressive recycling town, and it's no good for anyone involved.

AWildDHHAppears 10y ago
Exactly right. People _steal_ recyclables in my area, too, and many Progressives seem fine with theft and the unreported income that results. We have many other criminal acts (which have been caught on camera) associated with this, including rummaging through cars and package theft. When "three strikes" was foolishly overturned by pro-crime Californians, the amount that you have to steal to be charged with a felony also increased. So people can steal items from cars and doorsteps, in addition to recyclables, and never have to worry about spending a day in prison.
- ethanbond 10y ago
  Are you actually being defensive about your garbage being your property?
  - 100k 10y ago
    The problem most people have with "stealing" garbage are that it makes a mess (some scavengers are more polite than others -- I don't have problems in my neighborhood). The other issue I've heard of is that the companies that collect recycling get money for them, too, and this is factored into their contract with the city. So when independent operators take the recycling it cuts into their revenue and upsets the government.
  - AWildDHHAppears 10y ago
    No. I am concerned about the city's property being stolen. The recyclables belong to the city once I leave it out for recycling. They collect the value from it, including any deposit value. As a Taxpayer, I want this value to go to the city.
    - ethanbond 10y ago
      Ah what a bummer. A well articulated argument followed up by lame ad hominem. Have a good night!
- runamok 10y ago

vidarh 10y ago

Norway has an interesting approach to the bottle return. There is a tax on beverage containers of all types. This tax is reduced to be inversely proportional to return rates when return rates exceeds a certain level. So return rate of 40% means the seller pays only 60%. There is an additional charge on all containers that are not recyclable, regardless of the return rate. There is then a recycling scheme that retailers can participate in which involves bottle collection and centralised reuse (glass bottles in good condition only) and recycling (glass and plastic bottles) and redemption. As a result of the high return rates coupled with the tax reduction, most larger stores etc. have machines you can feed bottles for store credit, and at least when I was a kid pretty much any corner store etc. would also take bottles and pay out cash. This ability to return and redeem everywhere made picking bottles a simple way of making extra cash without having to go somewhere. When I was a kid it was a go-to way of supplementing my allowance, and you'd also see homeless people and retired people etc. doing it. It's given Norway a return rate for glass bottles of 99%, and an overall return rate for recyclable beverage containers of 95%, which is well in excess of most places with bottle return programs. Retailers have strong incentives to participate in the recycling programs to reduce their tax, especially given that all their competitors does too, and people expect to be able to return their bottles at the same time as making their purchases - if you don't participate in the return program, you force your customers to make an extra trip if shopping with you. The fee used to be quite substantial, though I believe it makes up a smaller percentage of most beverages now as I don't think (I haven't lived in Norway the last 16 years) the redemption rate has kept up with inflation. When I was a kid at one point the bottle return for 0.5l bottles of soda was about 5% of the purchase price.