6 ms·

This is just more proof that politics makes people stupid. Boycotting the whole network does the opposite of what they want because people tend to pull togethe

This is just more proof that politics makes people stupid. Boycotting the whole network does the opposite of what they want because people tend to pull together when they're being jointly attacked. So this move is more likely to make Fox stand behind Beck than it is to get them to fire him (As has been pointed out Fox News has double the viewers of it's nearest competitor so it isn't going to be lacking for advertisers) A better move would be to move all their advertising to other shows. Cause all the other ships to rise while Beck's sinks. Then the network won't feel under fire and will instead be asking "Maybe this Beck guy is more trouble than he's worth?"

lallysingh 17y ago
Sure, but: (1) I can't imagine Steve's a fan of Fox. (2) I think Apple may get more favor with their key demographics this way than by supporting Fox. There's a pretty liberal bias in Apple's demographics, at least from my anecdotal experience.
- aaronbrethorst 17y ago
  Rush Limbaugh is a very outspoken (in both senses) Mac user.
  - stcredzero 17y ago
    What mean you by "in both senses?"
    - aaronbrethorst 17y ago
      He's loud and obnoxious (and often a liar), and very passionate about Apple products.
- TomOfTTB 17y ago
  1.You’re right but Jobs has shown that he doesn’t think it’s a good idea to mix politics and business: http://gawker.com/505501/apple-crushes-iphone-developers-dreams http://gawker.com/505501/apple-crushes-iphone-developers-dre... 2.I would hope not. Say what you will about Fox News it’s no worse than MSNBC on the other side. Unless you truly believe Scott Brown is a “Irresponsible, Homophobic, Racist, Reactionary, Nude Model, Teabagging, Supporter Of Violence Against Women and Against Politicians with whom He Disagrees”. Apple’s fans clearly skew liberal but I’d like to think anyone would be opposed to that kind of hypocrisy. Edit: I don't mean to be rude but I just don't have the energy to argue with political nonsense. So all those who claim MSNBC is so much better than Fox News are just being ridiculous. One's left wing and one's right wing and the only reason a person would think one is better than the other is if they subscribed to the political agenda of that station. Citing Joe Scarborough is no different than Fox citing Alan Colmes (no longer on the network but who would still have a job there if he wanted it). And it's just silly to say someone like Olbermann is better or worse than Hannity or O'Reilly.
  - jbooth 17y ago
    MSNBC's morning show is led by Joe Scarborough, former republican congressman. MSNBC has never devoted an entire week of airtime to promoting liberal rallies. It's entirely different, and your kind of "split the difference, he said she said" attempt at objectivity just hides the truth. The truth is not necessarily the average between two idiots.
  - spamizbad 17y ago
    > 2.I would hope not. Say what you will about Fox News it’s no worse than MSNBC on the other side. Ah, a "Pox on both their houses" argument. Actually, you're right, but not in the way you'd think. MSNBC was instrumental in "manufacturing permission" for the Iraq war. It also cut a backroom deal with Newscorp to not report on each other's dirty laundry (GE's Iran dealings, Fox News O'Reilly scandals). Back in the day (1998-2004) MSNBC was in some respects a Fox-lite. When Bush and the Republican's reputation crashed they jumped off that bandwagon and started bolstering left-wing talkers. Beyond that there really is no comparison. Does the MSNBC of today lean left? Sure. But is it a major communication organ of the political Left-wing of the US the same way Fox is for the right? Not even close.
  - lenley 17y ago
    Please, MSNBC is definitely biased, but... You are falsely equating the FoxNews and MSNBC. Further, FoxNews is run by Roger Ailes ... which says an awful lot -- just read his descriptions of FoxNews. MSNBC... 1.) Morning Joe in the morning is 3 hours of conservative programming every morning. 2.) Olbermann and Matthews are over the top, but nowhere near Hannity and Beck. 3.) Maddow's an excellent interviewer and actually allows her opponents to answer questions and engage in substantive dialogue -- unlike anyone else on FoxNews or MSNBC. Maddow is progressive/liberal whatever the folks call themselves; however, she is critical of Democrats and Republicans both all the time from her ideological positions -- not just by party like Fox hosts, anchors etc.. tend to do.
    - jbooth 17y ago
      Matthews isn't even a liberal. He's one of those "definitely-not-liberal-and-drawing-contrasts-all-the-time-to-prove-it-so-he-can-keep-social-climbing" people who were uniquely produced by the DC climate over the last 30 years.
crux 17y ago
Why would Fox think that Beck was more trouble than he was worth if they didn't lose any money on the deal? By your suggestion he'd actually be no trouble at all.
- TomOfTTB 17y ago
  They’d lose money on Beck. Let’s be honest, protests don’t work. They never work. Because eventually the protestors get bored and move on to a new cause. Remember not too long ago when the left tried to get the CEO of Whole Foods fired? That’s a chain with a major liberal customer base and even it came to nothing. The only way to enact real change is to have a long term strategy and by putting money in to other Fox shows you’re driving their rates up while Beck’s rates fall. So in the end you’re creating a situation where Beck looks like the weak link and Fox starts to ask themselves if another host could do just as well. Boycotting the network on the other hand is, I guarantee you, going to drive his rates up. Every talk radio show is going to jump on this bandwagon and conservatives who don’t watch Beck are going to start watching him out of offense. The network’s going to feel under fire and back Beck and which point this protest has guaranteed Beck and job and actually raised his rates.
  - philipn 17y ago
    The CEO of Whole Foods did resign after pressure. See http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2009/12/26/Mackey-resigns-as-Whole-Foods-chairman/UPI-41171261857943/ http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2009/12/26/Mackey-resigns-a...
    - jbellis 17y ago
      He resigned as Chairman, not CEO. From your link: "Whole Foods, along with many other companies with combined CEO/chairman roles, has been targeted by corporate governance activists for several years now seeking a separation of these roles."
    - TomOfTTB 17y ago
      He resigned as Chairman of the Board but he's still a board member and is still CEO of the company. That's not being pushed out that's being smart enough to realize it would be better to put another face on the company because of a controversy.
lenley 17y ago
1.) It's Fox News, not broadcast Fox and not NewsCorp. 2.) Fox News is the largest cable _news_ station and number two overall, that's still a fraction of viewership of cable in aggregate. The overwhelming number of ppl get their news from broadcast tv. [http://www.mediabistro.com/TVNewser/Ratings/ http://www.mediabistro.com/TVNewser/Ratings/] 3.) Advertisers are incredibly risk averse, since there are plenty of safer choices, they can simply move their dollars and save the trouble. 4.) Lastly, this campaign by colorofchange.org has been going on for quite a long time and it's been effective. It's against Beck specifically and not the Fox Network in total. 5.) Whole foods, the kerfuffle about the Whole Foods Chairman was also resolved, he resigned: http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2009/12/26/Mackey-resigns-as-Whole-Foods-chairman/UPI-41171261857943/ http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2009/12/26/Mackey-resigns-a...
danudey 17y ago
The article linked from TUAW talks about the growing rift between Beck and Fox. That Fox has let Beck go on this long is likely what Apple's upset about, but taking fire for harbouring hate is probably not what Fox had in mind. They might start to reign him in if the rest of the network starts suffering. The rest of the 'journalists' on Fox News are upset enough already. Maybe this will help stir up dissent against Beck's lunacy amongst them too.
jsz0 17y ago
For the companies pulling advertising it's less about politics and more about protecting their brand/reputation. I doubt any of them care if Beck has a job or not. They just don't want their name anywhere near Fox News because it's becoming too risky. People who love Fox News probably won't notice or care if the ads are gone. Fox News is big for a cable network but for a company like Apple doing big network ad buys Fox News is just a blip on the radar. More risk than its worth.

lallysingh 17y ago

Sure, but: (1) I can't imagine Steve's a fan of Fox. (2) I think Apple may get more favor with their key demographics this way than by supporting Fox. There's a pretty liberal bias in Apple's demographics, at least from my anecdotal experience.

aaronbrethorst 17y ago
Rush Limbaugh is a very outspoken (in both senses) Mac user.
- stcredzero 17y ago
  What mean you by "in both senses?"
  - aaronbrethorst 17y ago
    He's loud and obnoxious (and often a liar), and very passionate about Apple products.
TomOfTTB 17y ago
1.You’re right but Jobs has shown that he doesn’t think it’s a good idea to mix politics and business: http://gawker.com/505501/apple-crushes-iphone-developers-dreams http://gawker.com/505501/apple-crushes-iphone-developers-dre... 2.I would hope not. Say what you will about Fox News it’s no worse than MSNBC on the other side. Unless you truly believe Scott Brown is a “Irresponsible, Homophobic, Racist, Reactionary, Nude Model, Teabagging, Supporter Of Violence Against Women and Against Politicians with whom He Disagrees”. Apple’s fans clearly skew liberal but I’d like to think anyone would be opposed to that kind of hypocrisy. Edit: I don't mean to be rude but I just don't have the energy to argue with political nonsense. So all those who claim MSNBC is so much better than Fox News are just being ridiculous. One's left wing and one's right wing and the only reason a person would think one is better than the other is if they subscribed to the political agenda of that station. Citing Joe Scarborough is no different than Fox citing Alan Colmes (no longer on the network but who would still have a job there if he wanted it). And it's just silly to say someone like Olbermann is better or worse than Hannity or O'Reilly.
- jbooth 17y ago
  MSNBC's morning show is led by Joe Scarborough, former republican congressman. MSNBC has never devoted an entire week of airtime to promoting liberal rallies. It's entirely different, and your kind of "split the difference, he said she said" attempt at objectivity just hides the truth. The truth is not necessarily the average between two idiots.
- spamizbad 17y ago
  > 2.I would hope not. Say what you will about Fox News it’s no worse than MSNBC on the other side. Ah, a "Pox on both their houses" argument. Actually, you're right, but not in the way you'd think. MSNBC was instrumental in "manufacturing permission" for the Iraq war. It also cut a backroom deal with Newscorp to not report on each other's dirty laundry (GE's Iran dealings, Fox News O'Reilly scandals). Back in the day (1998-2004) MSNBC was in some respects a Fox-lite. When Bush and the Republican's reputation crashed they jumped off that bandwagon and started bolstering left-wing talkers. Beyond that there really is no comparison. Does the MSNBC of today lean left? Sure. But is it a major communication organ of the political Left-wing of the US the same way Fox is for the right? Not even close.
- lenley 17y ago
  Please, MSNBC is definitely biased, but... You are falsely equating the FoxNews and MSNBC. Further, FoxNews is run by Roger Ailes ... which says an awful lot -- just read his descriptions of FoxNews. MSNBC... 1.) Morning Joe in the morning is 3 hours of conservative programming every morning. 2.) Olbermann and Matthews are over the top, but nowhere near Hannity and Beck. 3.) Maddow's an excellent interviewer and actually allows her opponents to answer questions and engage in substantive dialogue -- unlike anyone else on FoxNews or MSNBC. Maddow is progressive/liberal whatever the folks call themselves; however, she is critical of Democrats and Republicans both all the time from her ideological positions -- not just by party like Fox hosts, anchors etc.. tend to do.
  - jbooth 17y ago
    Matthews isn't even a liberal. He's one of those "definitely-not-liberal-and-drawing-contrasts-all-the-time-to-prove-it-so-he-can-keep-social-climbing" people who were uniquely produced by the DC climate over the last 30 years.

crux 17y ago

Why would Fox think that Beck was more trouble than he was worth if they didn't lose any money on the deal? By your suggestion he'd actually be no trouble at all.

TomOfTTB 17y ago
They’d lose money on Beck. Let’s be honest, protests don’t work. They never work. Because eventually the protestors get bored and move on to a new cause. Remember not too long ago when the left tried to get the CEO of Whole Foods fired? That’s a chain with a major liberal customer base and even it came to nothing. The only way to enact real change is to have a long term strategy and by putting money in to other Fox shows you’re driving their rates up while Beck’s rates fall. So in the end you’re creating a situation where Beck looks like the weak link and Fox starts to ask themselves if another host could do just as well. Boycotting the network on the other hand is, I guarantee you, going to drive his rates up. Every talk radio show is going to jump on this bandwagon and conservatives who don’t watch Beck are going to start watching him out of offense. The network’s going to feel under fire and back Beck and which point this protest has guaranteed Beck and job and actually raised his rates.
- philipn 17y ago
  The CEO of Whole Foods did resign after pressure. See http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2009/12/26/Mackey-resigns-as-Whole-Foods-chairman/UPI-41171261857943/ http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2009/12/26/Mackey-resigns-a...
  - jbellis 17y ago
    He resigned as Chairman, not CEO. From your link: "Whole Foods, along with many other companies with combined CEO/chairman roles, has been targeted by corporate governance activists for several years now seeking a separation of these roles."
  - TomOfTTB 17y ago
    He resigned as Chairman of the Board but he's still a board member and is still CEO of the company. That's not being pushed out that's being smart enough to realize it would be better to put another face on the company because of a controversy.

lenley 17y ago

1.) It's Fox News, not broadcast Fox and not NewsCorp. 2.) Fox News is the largest cable _news_ station and number two overall, that's still a fraction of viewership of cable in aggregate. The overwhelming number of ppl get their news from broadcast tv. [http://www.mediabistro.com/TVNewser/Ratings/ http://www.mediabistro.com/TVNewser/Ratings/] 3.) Advertisers are incredibly risk averse, since there are plenty of safer choices, they can simply move their dollars and save the trouble. 4.) Lastly, this campaign by colorofchange.org has been going on for quite a long time and it's been effective. It's against Beck specifically and not the Fox Network in total. 5.) Whole foods, the kerfuffle about the Whole Foods Chairman was also resolved, he resigned: http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2009/12/26/Mackey-resigns-as-Whole-Foods-chairman/UPI-41171261857943/ http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2009/12/26/Mackey-resigns-a...

danudey 17y ago

The article linked from TUAW talks about the growing rift between Beck and Fox. That Fox has let Beck go on this long is likely what Apple's upset about, but taking fire for harbouring hate is probably not what Fox had in mind. They might start to reign him in if the rest of the network starts suffering. The rest of the 'journalists' on Fox News are upset enough already. Maybe this will help stir up dissent against Beck's lunacy amongst them too.

jsz0 17y ago

For the companies pulling advertising it's less about politics and more about protecting their brand/reputation. I doubt any of them care if Beck has a job or not. They just don't want their name anywhere near Fox News because it's becoming too risky. People who love Fox News probably won't notice or care if the ads are gone. Fox News is big for a cable network but for a company like Apple doing big network ad buys Fox News is just a blip on the radar. More risk than its worth.