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Vanilla's another one. I can't find a great reference right now, but usage of imitation vanilla far outstrips actual vanilla production, especially commerciall

Vanilla's another one. I can't find a great reference right now, but usage of imitation vanilla far outstrips actual vanilla production, especially commercially. [0] If everyone in the world who uses vanilla flavoring wanted to use the real thing, there wouldn't be nearly enough. Fortunately, it turns out it's pretty hard to tell the difference in most recipes that involve multiple flavors. [1] [0] Havkin-Freknel, Daphna. "Vanilla Around the World: New Challenges, Old Opportunities" http://media.wix.com/ugd/a3ac9c_b0f273fc9d7a4cafa6fe477d735ee3f5.pdf http://media.wix.com/ugd/a3ac9c_b0f273fc9d7a4cafa6fe477d735e... [1] http://sweets.seriouseats.com/2013/12/taste-test-is-better-vanilla-extract-worth-the-price.html http://sweets.seriouseats.com/2013/12/taste-test-is-better-v...

TheRealPomax 10y ago
A point of contention: "imitation" is too ambiguous. Let's go with "vanillin" vs. "fake vanilla". Artificially produced Vanillin (the primary compound in natural vanilla) is a fantastic substance and perfect for anything for which the preparation would destroy the complexities of natural vanilla (natural vanilla in high heat/prolonged heat baked goods? What's the point, you're just destroying the subtleties). This is marketed as "artificial vanilla extract", which is a correct description: it is an artificially created equivalent to vanilla extract, lacking the (tens and tens of) trace compounds that make real vanilla a complex aromatic substance. But on the other side of the "immitation" spectrum we also find crazy things: "using things that are like vanilla, and selling it as if it's vanilla", of which there are many instances. Since vanilla is so scarce, rather than going the (cheap!) artificial production way, small scale operations will try to cash in on the higher price of real vanilla by passing off extracts that are similar to vanilla as the real deal. Some of these can kill people. Notable in that category in recent history: tonka beans.
- venomsnake 10y ago
  What is the temperature point for vanilla degradation? I use the real deal (pod with seeds) in custard ice cream and it is the most expensive ingredient there. And I get it to 80c/175 F
  - TheRealPomax 10y ago
    80C isn't particularly destructive, think more prolonged exposure to 180C in cakes, cheesecakes, etc. Plenty of the well over a hundred trace compounds undergo transformations at that heat on the surface, with different sourced vanilla behaving differently at higher temperatures. So unless you can control the exact sourcing of your ingredients, the stability (and of course simpliciy) of pure vanillin is perfect for reliable, repeatable high temperature recipes.
    - venomsnake 10y ago
      You cannot get above 100C for anything that still has water in it. The only place where vanilla(and the dough) gets at 160C is in the crust (that tasty tasty Maillard reaction). So if you notice destruction of flavor in the body - it is probably because of the time of exposure in while you get to 90C that rich dough is usually considered done.

TheRealPomax 10y ago

A point of contention: "imitation" is too ambiguous. Let's go with "vanillin" vs. "fake vanilla". Artificially produced Vanillin (the primary compound in natural vanilla) is a fantastic substance and perfect for anything for which the preparation would destroy the complexities of natural vanilla (natural vanilla in high heat/prolonged heat baked goods? What's the point, you're just destroying the subtleties). This is marketed as "artificial vanilla extract", which is a correct description: it is an artificially created equivalent to vanilla extract, lacking the (tens and tens of) trace compounds that make real vanilla a complex aromatic substance. But on the other side of the "immitation" spectrum we also find crazy things: "using things that are like vanilla, and selling it as if it's vanilla", of which there are many instances. Since vanilla is so scarce, rather than going the (cheap!) artificial production way, small scale operations will try to cash in on the higher price of real vanilla by passing off extracts that are similar to vanilla as the real deal. Some of these can kill people. Notable in that category in recent history: tonka beans.

venomsnake 10y ago
What is the temperature point for vanilla degradation? I use the real deal (pod with seeds) in custard ice cream and it is the most expensive ingredient there. And I get it to 80c/175 F
- TheRealPomax 10y ago
  80C isn't particularly destructive, think more prolonged exposure to 180C in cakes, cheesecakes, etc. Plenty of the well over a hundred trace compounds undergo transformations at that heat on the surface, with different sourced vanilla behaving differently at higher temperatures. So unless you can control the exact sourcing of your ingredients, the stability (and of course simpliciy) of pure vanillin is perfect for reliable, repeatable high temperature recipes.
  - venomsnake 10y ago
    You cannot get above 100C for anything that still has water in it. The only place where vanilla(and the dough) gets at 160C is in the crust (that tasty tasty Maillard reaction). So if you notice destruction of flavor in the body - it is probably because of the time of exposure in while you get to 90C that rich dough is usually considered done.