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Demand of olive oil probably outstrips the capacity of the world to produce it. Does this work for other resources? Is there enough raw materials to make batte

Demand of olive oil probably outstrips the capacity of the world to produce it. Does this work for other resources? Is there enough raw materials to make batteries, to replace a billion cars?

tim333 10y ago
Not sure about that - there are many many acres of olive trees in Spain and in Italy where I visit many of the olives in the mountains go unpicked because it's too much effort to go and get them.
- justinator 10y ago
  Well, think of all the stores in each city, in each country that say they have olive oil in them, but they don't. Even if we harvest all the olives to make olive oil, would we still have a deficit of olive oil being produced? Assume there's economic supply/demand isn't at work - is our current production of olive oil still greater than the current supply?
JshWright 10y ago
Production capacity (i.e. "supply") and demand are not independent variables...
pimlottc 10y ago
Vanilla's another one. I can't find a great reference right now, but usage of imitation vanilla far outstrips actual vanilla production, especially commercially. [0] If everyone in the world who uses vanilla flavoring wanted to use the real thing, there wouldn't be nearly enough. Fortunately, it turns out it's pretty hard to tell the difference in most recipes that involve multiple flavors. [1] [0] Havkin-Freknel, Daphna. "Vanilla Around the World: New Challenges, Old Opportunities" http://media.wix.com/ugd/a3ac9c_b0f273fc9d7a4cafa6fe477d735ee3f5.pdf http://media.wix.com/ugd/a3ac9c_b0f273fc9d7a4cafa6fe477d735e... [1] http://sweets.seriouseats.com/2013/12/taste-test-is-better-vanilla-extract-worth-the-price.html http://sweets.seriouseats.com/2013/12/taste-test-is-better-v...
- TheRealPomax 10y ago
  A point of contention: "imitation" is too ambiguous. Let's go with "vanillin" vs. "fake vanilla". Artificially produced Vanillin (the primary compound in natural vanilla) is a fantastic substance and perfect for anything for which the preparation would destroy the complexities of natural vanilla (natural vanilla in high heat/prolonged heat baked goods? What's the point, you're just destroying the subtleties). This is marketed as "artificial vanilla extract", which is a correct description: it is an artificially created equivalent to vanilla extract, lacking the (tens and tens of) trace compounds that make real vanilla a complex aromatic substance. But on the other side of the "immitation" spectrum we also find crazy things: "using things that are like vanilla, and selling it as if it's vanilla", of which there are many instances. Since vanilla is so scarce, rather than going the (cheap!) artificial production way, small scale operations will try to cash in on the higher price of real vanilla by passing off extracts that are similar to vanilla as the real deal. Some of these can kill people. Notable in that category in recent history: tonka beans.
  - venomsnake 10y ago
    What is the temperature point for vanilla degradation? I use the real deal (pod with seeds) in custard ice cream and it is the most expensive ingredient there. And I get it to 80c/175 F
    - TheRealPomax 10y ago
      80C isn't particularly destructive, think more prolonged exposure to 180C in cakes, cheesecakes, etc. Plenty of the well over a hundred trace compounds undergo transformations at that heat on the surface, with different sourced vanilla behaving differently at higher temperatures. So unless you can control the exact sourcing of your ingredients, the stability (and of course simpliciy) of pure vanillin is perfect for reliable, repeatable high temperature recipes.
      - venomsnake 10y ago
        You cannot get above 100C for anything that still has water in it. The only place where vanilla(and the dough) gets at 160C is in the crust (that tasty tasty Maillard reaction). So if you notice destruction of flavor in the body - it is probably because of the time of exposure in while you get to 90C that rich dough is usually considered done.
coldtea 10y ago
>Demand of olive oil probably outstrips the capacity of the world to produce it. Only if we assume price is fixed. Because by merely raising the price (which you can, when there's demand) you get to manipulate the capacity needed.
- mikro2nd 10y ago
  Except that it takes at least five years from planting an olive tree to where you get any kind of harvest (and longer before you get a "commercially viable" harvest.) So there's a significant lag in there that you might want to consider - it's not like manufacturing shoes or something.
  - JshWright 10y ago
    If production were at a hard cap, the price would rise until demand fell off to a point that the supply could meet it.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    Prices can rise (or fall) almost instantly to reflect that though...
- justinator 10y ago
  But I'm talking about currently - if all the olive oil is real (which is not, by a large margin), I'm not talking about if basic economics comes into play. Remember VW with their magical Diesel engines that didn't work as advertised? This is basically the same thing. Companies are producing goods that aren't what they appear, and are advertising the benefits of them. In olive oil's case, it's supposedly healthier. In VW's, their cars are supposed to be better for the environment. I'm just curious when this is going to be uncovered again. But you're right: if not enough lithum (say) can be mined to produce enough electric cars to replace the internal combustion engine cars with have today - about a billion cars, electric cars are going to, in the long run, not make as big of a dent as we would have perhaps hoped.
kpil 10y ago
Last time i heard something there was a huge surplus in EU, especially Spain.

Demand of olive oil probably outstrips the capacity of the world to produce it. Does this work for other resources? Is there enough raw materials to make batteries, to replace a billion cars?

tim333 10y ago

Not sure about that - there are many many acres of olive trees in Spain and in Italy where I visit many of the olives in the mountains go unpicked because it's too much effort to go and get them.

justinator 10y ago
Well, think of all the stores in each city, in each country that say they have olive oil in them, but they don't. Even if we harvest all the olives to make olive oil, would we still have a deficit of olive oil being produced? Assume there's economic supply/demand isn't at work - is our current production of olive oil still greater than the current supply?

JshWright 10y ago

Production capacity (i.e. "supply") and demand are not independent variables...

pimlottc 10y ago

Vanilla's another one. I can't find a great reference right now, but usage of imitation vanilla far outstrips actual vanilla production, especially commercially. [0] If everyone in the world who uses vanilla flavoring wanted to use the real thing, there wouldn't be nearly enough. Fortunately, it turns out it's pretty hard to tell the difference in most recipes that involve multiple flavors. [1] [0] Havkin-Freknel, Daphna. "Vanilla Around the World: New Challenges, Old Opportunities" http://media.wix.com/ugd/a3ac9c_b0f273fc9d7a4cafa6fe477d735ee3f5.pdf http://media.wix.com/ugd/a3ac9c_b0f273fc9d7a4cafa6fe477d735e... [1] http://sweets.seriouseats.com/2013/12/taste-test-is-better-vanilla-extract-worth-the-price.html http://sweets.seriouseats.com/2013/12/taste-test-is-better-v...

TheRealPomax 10y ago
A point of contention: "imitation" is too ambiguous. Let's go with "vanillin" vs. "fake vanilla". Artificially produced Vanillin (the primary compound in natural vanilla) is a fantastic substance and perfect for anything for which the preparation would destroy the complexities of natural vanilla (natural vanilla in high heat/prolonged heat baked goods? What's the point, you're just destroying the subtleties). This is marketed as "artificial vanilla extract", which is a correct description: it is an artificially created equivalent to vanilla extract, lacking the (tens and tens of) trace compounds that make real vanilla a complex aromatic substance. But on the other side of the "immitation" spectrum we also find crazy things: "using things that are like vanilla, and selling it as if it's vanilla", of which there are many instances. Since vanilla is so scarce, rather than going the (cheap!) artificial production way, small scale operations will try to cash in on the higher price of real vanilla by passing off extracts that are similar to vanilla as the real deal. Some of these can kill people. Notable in that category in recent history: tonka beans.
- venomsnake 10y ago
  What is the temperature point for vanilla degradation? I use the real deal (pod with seeds) in custard ice cream and it is the most expensive ingredient there. And I get it to 80c/175 F
  - TheRealPomax 10y ago
    80C isn't particularly destructive, think more prolonged exposure to 180C in cakes, cheesecakes, etc. Plenty of the well over a hundred trace compounds undergo transformations at that heat on the surface, with different sourced vanilla behaving differently at higher temperatures. So unless you can control the exact sourcing of your ingredients, the stability (and of course simpliciy) of pure vanillin is perfect for reliable, repeatable high temperature recipes.
    - venomsnake 10y ago
      You cannot get above 100C for anything that still has water in it. The only place where vanilla(and the dough) gets at 160C is in the crust (that tasty tasty Maillard reaction). So if you notice destruction of flavor in the body - it is probably because of the time of exposure in while you get to 90C that rich dough is usually considered done.

coldtea 10y ago

>Demand of olive oil probably outstrips the capacity of the world to produce it. Only if we assume price is fixed. Because by merely raising the price (which you can, when there's demand) you get to manipulate the capacity needed.

mikro2nd 10y ago
Except that it takes at least five years from planting an olive tree to where you get any kind of harvest (and longer before you get a "commercially viable" harvest.) So there's a significant lag in there that you might want to consider - it's not like manufacturing shoes or something.
- JshWright 10y ago
  If production were at a hard cap, the price would rise until demand fell off to a point that the supply could meet it.
- coldtea 10y ago
  Prices can rise (or fall) almost instantly to reflect that though...
justinator 10y ago
But I'm talking about currently - if all the olive oil is real (which is not, by a large margin), I'm not talking about if basic economics comes into play. Remember VW with their magical Diesel engines that didn't work as advertised? This is basically the same thing. Companies are producing goods that aren't what they appear, and are advertising the benefits of them. In olive oil's case, it's supposedly healthier. In VW's, their cars are supposed to be better for the environment. I'm just curious when this is going to be uncovered again. But you're right: if not enough lithum (say) can be mined to produce enough electric cars to replace the internal combustion engine cars with have today - about a billion cars, electric cars are going to, in the long run, not make as big of a dent as we would have perhaps hoped.

kpil 10y ago

Last time i heard something there was a huge surplus in EU, especially Spain.