3 ms·

In what way could iMessage's encryption be better than TLS? Which improvements, specifically, could make it better than TLS? I was under the impression that TLS

by runeks 10y ago

In what way could iMessage's encryption be better than TLS? Which improvements, specifically, could make it better than TLS? I was under the impression that TLS is state-of-the-art.

mSparks 10y ago
tls is "state of the art" for a public server to talk to unknown users. but basically totally broken by design. http://www.interworx.com/community/is-ssl-tls-broken/ http://www.interworx.com/community/is-ssl-tls-broken/ further tls:sender,recipient and server can read the message end to end:only sender and reciever can read the messages even though a sever facilitates connecting them to each other.
- AlexCoventry 10y ago
  > but basically totally broken by design. > http://www.interworx.com/community/is-ssl-tls-broken/ Can you please excerpt some quotes from that article which support that claim?
  - mSparks 10y ago
    "That’s worrying, but in practical terms, it’s unlikely to have significantly impacted the security of TLS because the elliptic curve random number generator in question is not often used." vs. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/rsa/ http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/rsa/ "Secondly, there’s the implementation. This is a bit more tricky because there’s plenty of scope for influencing either the software implementations or the standards upon which that implementation is based." vs. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/15/still_200k_iot_heartbleed_vulns/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/15/still_200k_iot_heart... And if you think the vulnerabilities of the shocking state of openssl stop at heartbleed (which is as obvious as backdoors get), you've obviously not given the code even a cursory glance over. https obviously greater than http But if you trust it with your life you wont have a life. It's as simple as that. (and tls is basic compared to tor, and even that we have seen is broken to hell and back, or silkroad would still be running.) Signal and especially OTR are the current state of the art. Apple went the security by obscurity route and once again proved it's inferior.
tptacek 10y ago
I believe only in the sense that it doesn't chain entirely back to the TLS X.509 CA PKI.
gcr 10y ago
TLS is supposed to protect data in-flight, but the data is known to both parties. iMessage was advertised to protect the user's message in such a way that even Apple couldnt't read them, even if they stage a man-in-the-middle attack. (disclosure: I have not read the article)
cpach 10y ago
I’m by no means an expert in this field, but my impression is that Signal’s protocol is state of the art when it comes to end-to-end-encrypted messaging. https://github.com/WhisperSystems/libsignal-protocol-java https://github.com/WhisperSystems/libsignal-protocol-java Edit: Some more pointers for those interested: https://whispersystems.org/blog/signal-inside-and-out/ https://whispersystems.org/blog/signal-inside-and-out/
y7 10y ago
TLS is a form of transport encryption, which encrypts data between the client and the server. End-to-end encryption encrypts data between two clients, so that the server cannot read any messages. The paper claims that while iMessage is marketed as end-to-end encrypted, because of vulnerabilities it is more like it just uses transport encryption.

by runeks 10y ago

In what way could iMessage's encryption be better than TLS? Which improvements, specifically, could make it better than TLS? I was under the impression that TLS is state-of-the-art.

mSparks 10y ago

tls is "state of the art" for a public server to talk to unknown users. but basically totally broken by design. http://www.interworx.com/community/is-ssl-tls-broken/ http://www.interworx.com/community/is-ssl-tls-broken/ further tls:sender,recipient and server can read the message end to end:only sender and reciever can read the messages even though a sever facilitates connecting them to each other.

AlexCoventry 10y ago
> but basically totally broken by design. > http://www.interworx.com/community/is-ssl-tls-broken/ Can you please excerpt some quotes from that article which support that claim?
- mSparks 10y ago
  "That’s worrying, but in practical terms, it’s unlikely to have significantly impacted the security of TLS because the elliptic curve random number generator in question is not often used." vs. http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/rsa/ http://www.loyalty.org/~schoen/rsa/ "Secondly, there’s the implementation. This is a bit more tricky because there’s plenty of scope for influencing either the software implementations or the standards upon which that implementation is based." vs. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/15/still_200k_iot_heartbleed_vulns/ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/15/still_200k_iot_heart... And if you think the vulnerabilities of the shocking state of openssl stop at heartbleed (which is as obvious as backdoors get), you've obviously not given the code even a cursory glance over. https obviously greater than http But if you trust it with your life you wont have a life. It's as simple as that. (and tls is basic compared to tor, and even that we have seen is broken to hell and back, or silkroad would still be running.) Signal and especially OTR are the current state of the art. Apple went the security by obscurity route and once again proved it's inferior.

tptacek 10y ago

I believe only in the sense that it doesn't chain entirely back to the TLS X.509 CA PKI.

gcr 10y ago

TLS is supposed to protect data in-flight, but the data is known to both parties. iMessage was advertised to protect the user's message in such a way that even Apple couldnt't read them, even if they stage a man-in-the-middle attack. (disclosure: I have not read the article)

cpach 10y ago

I’m by no means an expert in this field, but my impression is that Signal’s protocol is state of the art when it comes to end-to-end-encrypted messaging. https://github.com/WhisperSystems/libsignal-protocol-java https://github.com/WhisperSystems/libsignal-protocol-java Edit: Some more pointers for those interested: https://whispersystems.org/blog/signal-inside-and-out/ https://whispersystems.org/blog/signal-inside-and-out/

y7 10y ago

TLS is a form of transport encryption, which encrypts data between the client and the server. End-to-end encryption encrypts data between two clients, so that the server cannot read any messages. The paper claims that while iMessage is marketed as end-to-end encrypted, because of vulnerabilities it is more like it just uses transport encryption.