4 ms·

That's not that much money, they need grants from OSS foundations, OSS like that need to get better at funding. How many millions the Mozilla foundation gave aw

That's not that much money, they need grants from OSS foundations, OSS like that need to get better at funding. How many millions the Mozilla foundation gave away this year ? and to only what, 8 projects ? The Gnome foundation could also help , instead of the financing dubious programs I won't name. But I guess it's better to waste money on hype rather than supporting well established projects.

ronjouch 10y ago
Agreed, qualifying 75 k$/yr in the US as "not much money" is hyperbole for a developer with 20 years experience of multithreaded multiplatform C++. As to funding from big OSS players, the problem is that Ardour is niche software, far away from the interests of those big OSS players. Regarding your examples, - Mozilla has interest and invests into web/infrastructure tech (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11956234 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11956234 ), Ardour doesn't fit in here. - GNOME... can you name these dubious programs you are referring to? To my eyes, GNOME just tries to survive with limited funding.
- ashitlerferad 10y ago
  The GNOME program aims at getting more people involved in OSS projects: https://www.gnome.org/outreachy/ https://www.gnome.org/outreachy/ Personally, I think it is awesome and appreciate the great contributors I've seen come in through the program.
  - wtbob 10y ago
    > Currently, internships are open internationally to women (cis and trans), trans men, and genderqueer people. Additionally, they are open to residents and nationals of the United States of any gender who are Black/African American, Hispanic/Latin@, American Indian, Alaska Native, Native Hawaiian, or Pacific Islander. It's have been quicker to write, 'internships are open to everyone but white, heterosexual men,' but that would have been too honest. How utterly despicable. Perhaps Paul Davis could apply, and claim to be Pauline Davis for internship purposes.
    - ronjouch 10y ago
      > "It's have been quicker to write, 'internships are open to everyone but white, heterosexual men,' but that would have been too honest." Agreed. But I don't think it's despicable. Our field needs diversity, and in a dominated ecosystem you don't get diversity by just letting natural forces do their job, because the ecosystem is already dominated/biased. So to my eyes we need biased, opposed initiatives like this one, or PyLadies. Does it remove available funding for Paul? (In other words, are the total available OSS funds the result of a zero-sum game)? I don't think so: some support the goals of Outreachy and contribute to it, some like Mozilla just contribute to what's in their field. These programs are about OSS fundings but I wouldn't categorize them as part of the same set.
      - ashark 10y ago
        > But I don't think it's despicable. Our field needs diversity, and in a dominated ecosystem you don't get diversity by just letting natural forces do their job, because the ecosystem is already dominated/biased. Serious question: was this kind of stuff necessary for the huge increases over the decades in the percentage of lawyers and doctors who are women? If not, then it seems it's possible (if not necessarily desirable) to let "natural" forces do their work for achieving gender balance, and least for careers requiring well-educated individuals that provide high compensation and confer high status (those are both higher status than developers in most circles, by far). But maybe there were lots of women-only medical conferences or something at some point. Maybe there still are, I really don't know. (I did a quick DDG search for this issue in law and medicine, but turned up nothing relevant aside from graphs demonstrating the shift)
        ronjouch 10y ago
        I don't know either. Thoughts/questions: - Can we compare the case of legal/medical to software? Especially, have the legal/medical fields been so unbalanced as software is right now? (Not implying it was, honestly asking). And if it was, as you ask yourself, what mechanisms helped bringing balance? - Regarding the specific case of sexism in software, early research suggests that the unbalance may have emerged in the 1970s as "the idea that computers are for boys became a narrative", maybe due to ads: http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/10/21/357629765/when-women-stopped-coding http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/10/21/357629765/when-... . Admitting this idea, what about now? Yes, unlike in the 1970s, software is part of everyone's daily lives. However, the "computers (and STEM) are for boys" myth isn't dead.
  - Joeboy 10y ago
    Obviously getting way offtopic here, but I want to point out that from scanning that page it looks like that's a $5000 stipend for three months of 40-hour weeks. Not exactly the big bucks.

ronjouch 10y ago

Agreed, qualifying 75 k$/yr in the US as "not much money" is hyperbole for a developer with 20 years experience of multithreaded multiplatform C++. As to funding from big OSS players, the problem is that Ardour is niche software, far away from the interests of those big OSS players. Regarding your examples, - Mozilla has interest and invests into web/infrastructure tech (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11956234 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11956234 ), Ardour doesn't fit in here. - GNOME... can you name these dubious programs you are referring to? To my eyes, GNOME just tries to survive with limited funding.

ashitlerferad 10y ago
The GNOME program aims at getting more people involved in OSS projects: https://www.gnome.org/outreachy/ https://www.gnome.org/outreachy/ Personally, I think it is awesome and appreciate the great contributors I've seen come in through the program.
- wtbob 10y ago
  > Currently, internships are open internationally to women (cis and trans), trans men, and genderqueer people. Additionally, they are open to residents and nationals of the United States of any gender who are Black/African American, Hispanic/Latin@, American Indian, Alaska Native, Native Hawaiian, or Pacific Islander. It's have been quicker to write, 'internships are open to everyone but white, heterosexual men,' but that would have been too honest. How utterly despicable. Perhaps Paul Davis could apply, and claim to be Pauline Davis for internship purposes.
  - ronjouch 10y ago
    > "It's have been quicker to write, 'internships are open to everyone but white, heterosexual men,' but that would have been too honest." Agreed. But I don't think it's despicable. Our field needs diversity, and in a dominated ecosystem you don't get diversity by just letting natural forces do their job, because the ecosystem is already dominated/biased. So to my eyes we need biased, opposed initiatives like this one, or PyLadies. Does it remove available funding for Paul? (In other words, are the total available OSS funds the result of a zero-sum game)? I don't think so: some support the goals of Outreachy and contribute to it, some like Mozilla just contribute to what's in their field. These programs are about OSS fundings but I wouldn't categorize them as part of the same set.
    - ashark 10y ago
      > But I don't think it's despicable. Our field needs diversity, and in a dominated ecosystem you don't get diversity by just letting natural forces do their job, because the ecosystem is already dominated/biased. Serious question: was this kind of stuff necessary for the huge increases over the decades in the percentage of lawyers and doctors who are women? If not, then it seems it's possible (if not necessarily desirable) to let "natural" forces do their work for achieving gender balance, and least for careers requiring well-educated individuals that provide high compensation and confer high status (those are both higher status than developers in most circles, by far). But maybe there were lots of women-only medical conferences or something at some point. Maybe there still are, I really don't know. (I did a quick DDG search for this issue in law and medicine, but turned up nothing relevant aside from graphs demonstrating the shift)
      - ronjouch 10y ago
        I don't know either. Thoughts/questions: - Can we compare the case of legal/medical to software? Especially, have the legal/medical fields been so unbalanced as software is right now? (Not implying it was, honestly asking). And if it was, as you ask yourself, what mechanisms helped bringing balance? - Regarding the specific case of sexism in software, early research suggests that the unbalance may have emerged in the 1970s as "the idea that computers are for boys became a narrative", maybe due to ads: http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/10/21/357629765/when-women-stopped-coding http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/10/21/357629765/when-... . Admitting this idea, what about now? Yes, unlike in the 1970s, software is part of everyone's daily lives. However, the "computers (and STEM) are for boys" myth isn't dead.
- Joeboy 10y ago
  Obviously getting way offtopic here, but I want to point out that from scanning that page it looks like that's a $5000 stipend for three months of 40-hour weeks. Not exactly the big bucks.