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But if you think heroin is a demon and marijuana(or alcohol) is ok you are sadly mistaken. 1 of the 3 is ok, by some definition of ok. My definition: doesn't

by e40 10y ago

But if you think heroin is a demon and marijuana(or alcohol) is ok you are sadly mistaken. 1 of the 3 is ok, by some definition of ok. My definition: doesn't have serious health effects and users can (and do) live normal lives.

oneeyedpigeon 10y ago
I can't for the life of me work out which one you think is OK. Neither marijuana nor alcohol, in non-excessive quantities, will necessarily cause serious health effects, and people consume either whilst living perfectly 'normal' lives.
- aaron695 10y ago
  Personally I'd rate marijuana the worst. Obviously many people use heroin and have normal lives. Alcohol is destroying, but in incidents rather than marijuana which I think is long term damage. Heroin destroying lives is so complicated because most of it is societal based, it's not the drug destroying lives in current society.
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    > Heroin destroying lives is so complicated because most of it is societal based, it's not the drug destroying lives in current society. How is this different from marijuana?
    - vidarh 10y ago
      It isn't. It's just that the effects of heroin use today is much worse, even though the drug if consumed in reasonable quantities of medical grade supply is one of the safer opiates. The biggest problem with heroin is an adulterated supply, cut with anything from other - often more dangerous - drugs to brick dust, putting the user at substantial health risk both due to the stuff they've put in it and due to uneven doses. The second biggest problem is societal condemnation that makes it hard for those who function well on heroin to seek help if something goes wrong. Marijuana is less likely to be mixed with other crap, and you're less likely to face condemnation if you tell someone you use it. Other than that, heroin has a higher potential to cause damage in itself. You certainly can overdose on it, and damage yourself seriously with it in ways you'd find impossible with marijuana. But you can also use heroin your whole life with few ill effects if you have a clean and predictable supply. In terms of addiction we like to treat heroin is if it is insanely addictive, but there's little indication it's worse than alcohol in that respect (not that alcohol is a standard to aspire to when it comes to addiction potential).
  - e40 10y ago
    Personally I'd rate marijuana the worst. Why's that?
- vidarh 10y ago
  Neither will medical grade heroin usually in non-excessive quantities, and people consume that too whilst living perfectly normal lives.
- e40 10y ago
  Marijuana is the one with the least side effects. Alcohol in small amounts causes many, many deaths each year. And by small amounts I mean less than would cause health effects, but enough to DUI and killing people. I think the people here saying heroin users live "normal" lives are just kidding themselves.
maccard 10y ago
Plenty of people have opiod problems and live normal lives.
- blahi 10y ago
  I once tried to make the argument that heroin addicts do not look like TV leads you to believe, on HN. It did not work out.
  - tunap 10y ago
    As history as proven time and time again, the crowd loves a good witch hunt. Demonizing, deriding X is an incredibly effective tool of governance.
    - vidarh 10y ago
      It's also that most people don't meet "normal" people who admit to be heroin users, so they don't get a counter. With cannabis, anti-cannabis messages trying to portray cannabis users as all a bunch of layabout half-criminal pot-heads won't work any more because so many people know productive, intelligent, hard working normal people who use cannabis and are fine admitting it. I bought into that image of heroin users too, until I realised I'd worked with a heroin user for a long time without realising, and he didn't look like a wreck, and functioned well most of the time despite being a hardcore addict. When I then started reading up on it, I finally realised that not only can heroin addicts be high functioning people the same way alcoholics can, that you can't see it on most of the time, but most heroin users never get addicted the same way most alcohol users never become alcoholics, and it became impossible to hold onto my previously very strongly anti-drug views.
- e40 10y ago
  People that use opiods have to use greater and greater amounts to get the same effect, and people that take a lot of opiods may live a normal life but they have a much higher risk of sudden death. Prince, for example. I call that "not OK."
pessimizer 10y ago
Heroin is awful, but if heroin-addicted people can get heroin, they're fine.

by e40 10y ago

oneeyedpigeon 10y ago

I can't for the life of me work out which one you think is OK. Neither marijuana nor alcohol, in non-excessive quantities, will necessarily cause serious health effects, and people consume either whilst living perfectly 'normal' lives.

aaron695 10y ago
Personally I'd rate marijuana the worst. Obviously many people use heroin and have normal lives. Alcohol is destroying, but in incidents rather than marijuana which I think is long term damage. Heroin destroying lives is so complicated because most of it is societal based, it's not the drug destroying lives in current society.
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
  > Heroin destroying lives is so complicated because most of it is societal based, it's not the drug destroying lives in current society. How is this different from marijuana?
  - vidarh 10y ago
    It isn't. It's just that the effects of heroin use today is much worse, even though the drug if consumed in reasonable quantities of medical grade supply is one of the safer opiates. The biggest problem with heroin is an adulterated supply, cut with anything from other - often more dangerous - drugs to brick dust, putting the user at substantial health risk both due to the stuff they've put in it and due to uneven doses. The second biggest problem is societal condemnation that makes it hard for those who function well on heroin to seek help if something goes wrong. Marijuana is less likely to be mixed with other crap, and you're less likely to face condemnation if you tell someone you use it. Other than that, heroin has a higher potential to cause damage in itself. You certainly can overdose on it, and damage yourself seriously with it in ways you'd find impossible with marijuana. But you can also use heroin your whole life with few ill effects if you have a clean and predictable supply. In terms of addiction we like to treat heroin is if it is insanely addictive, but there's little indication it's worse than alcohol in that respect (not that alcohol is a standard to aspire to when it comes to addiction potential).
- e40 10y ago
  Personally I'd rate marijuana the worst. Why's that?
vidarh 10y ago
Neither will medical grade heroin usually in non-excessive quantities, and people consume that too whilst living perfectly normal lives.
e40 10y ago
Marijuana is the one with the least side effects. Alcohol in small amounts causes many, many deaths each year. And by small amounts I mean less than would cause health effects, but enough to DUI and killing people. I think the people here saying heroin users live "normal" lives are just kidding themselves.

maccard 10y ago

Plenty of people have opiod problems and live normal lives.

blahi 10y ago
I once tried to make the argument that heroin addicts do not look like TV leads you to believe, on HN. It did not work out.
- tunap 10y ago
  As history as proven time and time again, the crowd loves a good witch hunt. Demonizing, deriding X is an incredibly effective tool of governance.
  - vidarh 10y ago
    It's also that most people don't meet "normal" people who admit to be heroin users, so they don't get a counter. With cannabis, anti-cannabis messages trying to portray cannabis users as all a bunch of layabout half-criminal pot-heads won't work any more because so many people know productive, intelligent, hard working normal people who use cannabis and are fine admitting it. I bought into that image of heroin users too, until I realised I'd worked with a heroin user for a long time without realising, and he didn't look like a wreck, and functioned well most of the time despite being a hardcore addict. When I then started reading up on it, I finally realised that not only can heroin addicts be high functioning people the same way alcoholics can, that you can't see it on most of the time, but most heroin users never get addicted the same way most alcohol users never become alcoholics, and it became impossible to hold onto my previously very strongly anti-drug views.
e40 10y ago
People that use opiods have to use greater and greater amounts to get the same effect, and people that take a lot of opiods may live a normal life but they have a much higher risk of sudden death. Prince, for example. I call that "not OK."

pessimizer 10y ago

Heroin is awful, but if heroin-addicted people can get heroin, they're fine.