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I read an article in the financial newspaper today about fake diamonds arriving in Antwerp from India mixed in with real ones in 'diamond melee' packages (lots

by Luc 10y ago

I read an article in the financial newspaper today about fake diamonds arriving in Antwerp from India mixed in with real ones in 'diamond melee' packages (lots of small diamonds). (in Dutch): http://www.tijd.be/ondernemen/retail/Nepdiamanten_sijpelen_ons_land_binnen.9797771-3073.art http://www.tijd.be/ondernemen/retail/Nepdiamanten_sijpelen_o... I got terribly annoyed reading this article as it constantly conflates 'fake' and 'synthetic', as if they're synonyms. The 'fake' diamonds are actual diamonds, though not natural ones. Clearly a journalist who's echoing the industry propaganda. Apparently there's an estimated 10,000 diamond making machines churning them out in China. Good!

hawkice 10y ago
Or rather, the synthetic ones are only 'fake' insofar as they are passed off as natural (perhaps to gain a higher price). Put a different label on the box (for instance, the label 'Diamonds'), and they're 'real' again.
- Animats 10y ago
  DeBeers managed to convince the US Federal Trade Commission to require synthetic diamond manufacturers to label their products as synthetic. But China doesn't require that. China trade practice barely distinguishes between diamonds and cubic zirconia. If you want to order diamonds from China, you have to specify HPHT (high-pressure high temperature), or CVT (carbon vapor deposition) or you'll probably get cubic zirconia.[1] Nobody can detect better HPHT or CVT diamonds without lab equipment, anyway. Even under a microscope they look very similar. If you hit them with UV light and take a picture milliseconds after the light goes off, the fluorescence patterns are different. There's overpriced test equipment based on this fact. (Now there's a potential phone accessory - a UV flash that plugs into the phone for diamond grading, with associated app. Tiny market, though.) [1] https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-quality-white-hpht-diamond-for_60202367753.html https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-quality-white-hp...
jpmattia 10y ago
> fake diamonds What a funny concept. Is the index of refraction different from diamond? Is the placement of the carbon atoms not on a diamond lattice? Or is the lattice constant somehow smaller or larger?
- Aelinsaar 10y ago
  The value of a diamond is in its ability to display the wealth of the wearer. If a diamond no longer indicates status, it is "fake". That's the truth they're all beating around the bush of. It's pathetic, but there it is.
  - tempestn 10y ago
    They're not fake by that metric either though. No one can tell the difference between a synthetic and a high quality natural diamond - certainly not with the naked eye. So you're free to pretend your diamond came out of the dirt if you so desire.
    - niftich 10y ago
      Eh, splitting hairs, but it's 'fake' only in the sense of art forgery -- one of the paintings is in fact painted by the big-name artist, while the other one, no less marvellous in its execution and visually indistinguishable, isn't. Since only the two painters know for sure, the rest of the world relies on other people's word.
      - 1propionyl 10y ago
        I'm reminded of the Orson Welles "documentary" F is for Fake. I might have to rewatch it tonight.
      - Aelinsaar 10y ago
        And not always even that; artists have been fooled by forgeries of their own works before.
    - 10y ago
hinkley 10y ago
I -love- that the Canadian company started marketing 'conflict free diamonds' as a way to break the deBeers cartel. It makes me wonder if the synthetic guys have a leg to stand on regarding the ecological footprint of pit mining versus lab grown, or if it's about the same. Maybe they could cook up their own marketing label and stop trying to hide what they're doing.
- foota 10y ago
  I don't think conflict free has so much to do with the ecological footprint as it does the human impact of diamond mining operations.
  - justinlardinois 10y ago
    He was referring to the ecological footprint (or lack thereof) of synthetic diamonds, not conflict-free diamonds.
- Animats 10y ago
  That's what Diamond Foundry, the SF startup, is doing. They have a good story: "We produce gem quality diamonds above the ground in America — in harmony with nature and humanity. A carefully chosen earth diamond is at the origin of each of our diamonds. In the perfectly nurturing environment inside our foundry, diamond crystals want to continue to grow." The CEO was the founder of Nanosolar, which printed solar cells and went bust because, although the process worked, it wasn't cheaper. The investors in Diamond Foundry are the usual suspects - Zynga's founder, Sun Microsystem's founder, Facebook's co-founder, a former eBay CEO, etc. They even have an actor, for coolness. An endorsement by Leonardo DiCaprio: “I’m proud to invest in Diamond Foundry Inc.– reducing the human and environmental toll of the diamond industry by sustainably cultivating diamonds without the destructive use of mining.” It's a classic startup story. They claim to be "0.001% Rare"; this reflects their market share, like a microbrewery. Their big problem seems to be distribution. Only five small jewelers handle their product. De Beers punishes jewelers who do things they don't like by excluding them from "sights" where jewelers can buy diamonds at wholesale prices. This makes it hard for competitors to get access to retail outlets.

by Luc 10y ago

hawkice 10y ago

Or rather, the synthetic ones are only 'fake' insofar as they are passed off as natural (perhaps to gain a higher price). Put a different label on the box (for instance, the label 'Diamonds'), and they're 'real' again.

Animats 10y ago
DeBeers managed to convince the US Federal Trade Commission to require synthetic diamond manufacturers to label their products as synthetic. But China doesn't require that. China trade practice barely distinguishes between diamonds and cubic zirconia. If you want to order diamonds from China, you have to specify HPHT (high-pressure high temperature), or CVT (carbon vapor deposition) or you'll probably get cubic zirconia.[1] Nobody can detect better HPHT or CVT diamonds without lab equipment, anyway. Even under a microscope they look very similar. If you hit them with UV light and take a picture milliseconds after the light goes off, the fluorescence patterns are different. There's overpriced test equipment based on this fact. (Now there's a potential phone accessory - a UV flash that plugs into the phone for diamond grading, with associated app. Tiny market, though.) [1] https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-quality-white-hpht-diamond-for_60202367753.html https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-quality-white-hp...

jpmattia 10y ago

> fake diamonds What a funny concept. Is the index of refraction different from diamond? Is the placement of the carbon atoms not on a diamond lattice? Or is the lattice constant somehow smaller or larger?

Aelinsaar 10y ago
The value of a diamond is in its ability to display the wealth of the wearer. If a diamond no longer indicates status, it is "fake". That's the truth they're all beating around the bush of. It's pathetic, but there it is.
- tempestn 10y ago
  They're not fake by that metric either though. No one can tell the difference between a synthetic and a high quality natural diamond - certainly not with the naked eye. So you're free to pretend your diamond came out of the dirt if you so desire.
  - niftich 10y ago
    Eh, splitting hairs, but it's 'fake' only in the sense of art forgery -- one of the paintings is in fact painted by the big-name artist, while the other one, no less marvellous in its execution and visually indistinguishable, isn't. Since only the two painters know for sure, the rest of the world relies on other people's word.
    - 1propionyl 10y ago
      I'm reminded of the Orson Welles "documentary" F is for Fake. I might have to rewatch it tonight.
    - Aelinsaar 10y ago
      And not always even that; artists have been fooled by forgeries of their own works before.
  - 10y ago

hinkley 10y ago

I -love- that the Canadian company started marketing 'conflict free diamonds' as a way to break the deBeers cartel. It makes me wonder if the synthetic guys have a leg to stand on regarding the ecological footprint of pit mining versus lab grown, or if it's about the same. Maybe they could cook up their own marketing label and stop trying to hide what they're doing.

foota 10y ago
I don't think conflict free has so much to do with the ecological footprint as it does the human impact of diamond mining operations.
- justinlardinois 10y ago
  He was referring to the ecological footprint (or lack thereof) of synthetic diamonds, not conflict-free diamonds.
Animats 10y ago
That's what Diamond Foundry, the SF startup, is doing. They have a good story: "We produce gem quality diamonds above the ground in America — in harmony with nature and humanity. A carefully chosen earth diamond is at the origin of each of our diamonds. In the perfectly nurturing environment inside our foundry, diamond crystals want to continue to grow." The CEO was the founder of Nanosolar, which printed solar cells and went bust because, although the process worked, it wasn't cheaper. The investors in Diamond Foundry are the usual suspects - Zynga's founder, Sun Microsystem's founder, Facebook's co-founder, a former eBay CEO, etc. They even have an actor, for coolness. An endorsement by Leonardo DiCaprio: “I’m proud to invest in Diamond Foundry Inc.– reducing the human and environmental toll of the diamond industry by sustainably cultivating diamonds without the destructive use of mining.” It's a classic startup story. They claim to be "0.001% Rare"; this reflects their market share, like a microbrewery. Their big problem seems to be distribution. Only five small jewelers handle their product. De Beers punishes jewelers who do things they don't like by excluding them from "sights" where jewelers can buy diamonds at wholesale prices. This makes it hard for competitors to get access to retail outlets.