6 ms·

Can I just say how much I love the way public libraries have navigated themselves into the digital age? They are, as this piece points out, very popular places

by jawns 10y ago

Can I just say how much I love the way public libraries have navigated themselves into the digital age? They are, as this piece points out, very popular places to access computers and the Internet, and many libraries offer a wealth of digital content. I can check out and instantly download e-books and audiobooks and movies from my library. It's certainly conceivable that they might have transitioned less well. There is, after all, a healthy amount of government bureaucracy in the public library system, and that tends to stymie innovation. And then there's just the pain of transition. Bookstores have felt those pains hard; it's not that people don't want content, but they want content in different forms, and a lot of bookstores just couldn't move fast enough. But I'm really glad to see libraries continue to be generally healthy, and important community resources.

chatmasta 10y ago
Public libraries are amazingly accessible, but university libraries remain complicit in the ongoing racket of pay-to-read academic literature. Although many university libraries allow guest access during the day, you cannot access their academic subscriptions unless you're on the secure wifi.
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  Most universities have a proxy service that allows you to access journals and other digital databases from anywhere in the world. My previous university has one that I have lifetime access to (UAE University) and my current university has an even better collection (GATech).
- superuser2 10y ago
  They have to be, as a condition of their journal subscriptions. Librarians generally want to extend access as far as possible, but they are terrified of pissing off a publisher and getting a journal taken away from their entire university's community of researchers who need it to do their work.
  - chatmasta 10y ago
    If the universities really cared about open access, they could unionize against the publishers. Imagine the top 20 schools, which also happen to be the ones producing the research, refused to abide by the publisher rules. Would they all have their access revoked? It's never made sense to me why, despite billions of dollars budgeted toward scientific funding, private companies make money charging for journal access. Why can't all that public funding also go toward funding the peer review, editing, and publishing?
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      > If the universities really cared about open access, they could unionize against the publishers. If universities really, really cared, they could band together and set up their own journal publishing organization (many universities do have their own academic publishing arms, but a single-university journal publisher probably would be harder to establish respect for than one sponsored by a broad coalition of major universities.)
      - PeterisP 10y ago
        It's not enough to set up new journals. Until you convince everyone who matters (in your area of research) to use only the new journals, you still need the subscriptions to all the old journals as well, until (if!) they are abandoned and lose all status.
        wolfgke 10y ago
        Aaron Swartz alredy wrote about that in his Guerilla Open Access Manifesto (https://archive.org/details/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto; https://archive.org/details/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto; https://archive.org/stream/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto/Goamjuly2008_djvu.txt https://archive.org/stream/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto/Goamj...): "There are those struggling to change this. The Open Access Movement has fought valiantly to ensure that scientists do not sign their copyrights away but instead ensure their work is published on the Internet, under terms that allow anyone to access it. But even under the best scenarios, their work will only apply to things published in the future. Everything up until now will have been lost."
hiharryhere 10y ago
Replying from the NY Public Library in Nolita. Couldn't agree more, the crowd here is a real melting pot. Students, kids, old folk, rich, poor. I also like the opportunity to get on with work in a quiet place without feeling obliged to buy a coffee.
- donretag 10y ago
  Jersey St? I love that street. Very picturesque. So many photo shoots and movies filmed there (like the intro to Jarmusch's Permanent Vacation). The front in 1980 https://youtu.be/eAc59a90PBc?t=157 https://youtu.be/eAc59a90PBc?t=157
- jaydz 10y ago
  In New York you have access to lynda.com, just need a library card and pin. https://www.lynda.com/portal/patron https://www.lynda.com/portal/patron
distances 10y ago
In Finland many public libraries nowadays have even 3D printers and film slide scanners, and arrange training sessions for their use. It's really a wonderful system, and probably not even that expensive considering the learning potential for even the disadvantaged citizens.
- astronautjones 10y ago
  This is even popular in the Southeastern US, which is pretty incredible.
SilasX 10y ago
Yes, I discovered this myself far later than I should have! The SF central branch has a really good selection of programming/tech books. Also, having a library card enables access (as you note) to a wide selection of ebooks[1]. (I note, however, that the interface that you can use them through could use some redesign.) [1] http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000005001 http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000005001
blacksmith_tb 10y ago
Plus having a library card often gets you access (even remote access!) to lots of expensive services - I use the OED, J-stor, etc. from home with gusto. I will say there's a small dark side to having gone digital, many libraries have culled a lot of their holdings, and/or can't afford to buy as many books as they once did (have to pay for those licenses somehow...). It's likely that there's less demand, but it still makes me a little sad.
- superswordfish 10y ago
  I haven't noticed any reduction in catalog size or variety over the years (US), maybe I've lived around well-funded systems? If anything it's become more varied with time. The only annoying thing is having to filter out eBooks every time searching the catalog.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- uxp100 10y ago
  RE: culling, Yeah, there is stuff (I notice manga not reprinted since the 90s, they didn't hold up physically that well and they loaned mainly to teens) that I remember being common that has been culled. e.g. My library system doesn't have a copy of any of the volumes of "Please Save My Earth," and that was a title that many libraries had if they had any manga at all, in my experience.
randyrand 10y ago
More importantly, bookstores have to turn a profit. Libraries don't.
- rayiner 10y ago
  Your average bookstore makes like 5% profit (if they're not losing money). Barnes and Noble could become a non-profit tomorrow and prices would go down so little you wouldn't notice. It's not profit versus non-profit that means the difference between "affordable" and "unaffordable." It's the ability to use tax dollars to offer a service for a fraction of what it costs.
walrus01 10y ago
> Can I just say how much I love the way public libraries have navigated themselves into the digital age? yes, I also enjoy visiting the library to see the unwashed hobos jacking off to barely legal pornographic websites in a public place.
- colmvp 10y ago
  This seems like an unnecessarily jaded/cynical view. I'm sure there are lewd incidents that every librarian has had to deal with but I'm also sure that the vast majority of visitors/members are civil and better because of the institution.
JustSomeNobody 10y ago
Can I just say how much more civil the comments are here on HN re: libraries as opposed to, say, the last article I read on reddit[0] re: the subject. Seems the only thing they could do is complain about the homeless. [0]https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/4txauf/internet_cant_do_it_all_libraries_still_offer https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/4txauf/internet_cant...
- adrusi 10y ago
  Are you suggesting that it's not a legitimate grievance? Unless people are lying about, for instance, people watching porn in libraries, it does seem like there's a problem with the civility of that discussion. I haven't seen anything like that in my area, but I have seen lines of 16 or so desks being used as arcades, which can be okay so long as people remain quiet. But I've seen people have to ask gamers to leave in order to do something presumably more in-line with the goals of the library, which many people, especially kids, will be too shy to do. In theory, public libraries have been meant for people from all walks of life since their inception. But computer media have made them useful for a lot more things than intellectual pursuits, and it does seem reasonable that this would concern people. It's their taxes paying for it after all. It would be nice if people on reddit would reflect on why it bothers them that people come to the library on drugs and watch porn, but reddit doesn't have a culture of people writing out three-paragraph justifications for their opinions. I thought that it was pretty clear, though, what people are actually bothered by from the comments you uncharitably labeled "complaining about the homeless".
  - forloop 10y ago
    They said it was civil. The subject shouldn't be talked about because it could offend someone, not that it wasn't legitimate.
gcb0 10y ago
the shocking truth is that the government red tape proved to be less detrimental to knowledge sharing than DRM.
dilemma 10y ago
>Bookstores have felt those pains hard; it's not that people don't want content, but they want content in different forms, and a lot of bookstores just couldn't move fast enough. I'd say rather than people preferring digital, its the browsing and buying experience of the same old printed matter that needs to change for them to stay competitive. Bookstores have until now been little more than warehouses that store books, and let people walk in and buy them. That same function is done better by Amazon. What an updated bookstore needs to be about is the experience: Curation and recommendations so that you can find books that you didn't know you'd love (this is invaluable), a nice environment that makes you want to go there and makes books feel exciting. It should also hold events - launches, readings, discussions, exhibitions, workshops. It has to be more than a warehouse, basically. This encompasses retail for all industries: Experience, service, novelty.
- icebraining 10y ago
  While it's not just a bookstore, I think Fnac is a good example of this: many stores have a kind of coffeeshop inside where you can read the books (for free) and where they regularly host small concerts and discussions with book and movie authors.
- mooreds 10y ago
  > Experience, service, novelty. And a price close enough to that found online that you can get the close. Or you're going to get showroomed. An alternative to having the price close enough is to have the price in the ballpark and have a sense of urgency such that the consumer will buy now. I have walked into Barnes and Noble and bought a book because I wanted it right then and I was out and about. Perhaps I could have had it for $5 cheaper on Amazon, but saving that $5 wasn't worth the wait. Another alternative is to have (at least some of )the physical experience be purchased--hence the coffee shops in the bookstore--you can't get hot coffee via Amazon. (Yet?)
bluedino 10y ago
I have web access at my cities public library, but that's it. They have a fiber connection, wifi, and lots of working space but you can't even access github, Dropbox, or most vps's
kazinator 10y ago
> Can I just say how much I love the way public libraries have navigated themselves into the digital age? Yes, but at the slight risk of sounding ridiculous. Libraries were computerized long before the "Internet age".
- ssanders82 10y ago
  He said "digital age" not "Internet age" and then he mentions access to computers, the Internet, e-books, etc. Were you just looking for a comment to criticize?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - kazinator 10y ago
    > and then he mentions access to computers, the Internet, e-books, etc From that, I inferred that "digital age" is being used to denote "Internet age".

by jawns 10y ago

chatmasta 10y ago

Public libraries are amazingly accessible, but university libraries remain complicit in the ongoing racket of pay-to-read academic literature. Although many university libraries allow guest access during the day, you cannot access their academic subscriptions unless you're on the secure wifi.

Cyph0n 10y ago
Most universities have a proxy service that allows you to access journals and other digital databases from anywhere in the world. My previous university has one that I have lifetime access to (UAE University) and my current university has an even better collection (GATech).
superuser2 10y ago
They have to be, as a condition of their journal subscriptions. Librarians generally want to extend access as far as possible, but they are terrified of pissing off a publisher and getting a journal taken away from their entire university's community of researchers who need it to do their work.
- chatmasta 10y ago
  If the universities really cared about open access, they could unionize against the publishers. Imagine the top 20 schools, which also happen to be the ones producing the research, refused to abide by the publisher rules. Would they all have their access revoked? It's never made sense to me why, despite billions of dollars budgeted toward scientific funding, private companies make money charging for journal access. Why can't all that public funding also go toward funding the peer review, editing, and publishing?
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > If the universities really cared about open access, they could unionize against the publishers. If universities really, really cared, they could band together and set up their own journal publishing organization (many universities do have their own academic publishing arms, but a single-university journal publisher probably would be harder to establish respect for than one sponsored by a broad coalition of major universities.)
    - PeterisP 10y ago
      It's not enough to set up new journals. Until you convince everyone who matters (in your area of research) to use only the new journals, you still need the subscriptions to all the old journals as well, until (if!) they are abandoned and lose all status.
      - wolfgke 10y ago
        Aaron Swartz alredy wrote about that in his Guerilla Open Access Manifesto (https://archive.org/details/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto; https://archive.org/details/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto; https://archive.org/stream/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto/Goamjuly2008_djvu.txt https://archive.org/stream/GuerillaOpenAccessManifesto/Goamj...): "There are those struggling to change this. The Open Access Movement has fought valiantly to ensure that scientists do not sign their copyrights away but instead ensure their work is published on the Internet, under terms that allow anyone to access it. But even under the best scenarios, their work will only apply to things published in the future. Everything up until now will have been lost."

hiharryhere 10y ago

Replying from the NY Public Library in Nolita. Couldn't agree more, the crowd here is a real melting pot. Students, kids, old folk, rich, poor. I also like the opportunity to get on with work in a quiet place without feeling obliged to buy a coffee.

donretag 10y ago
Jersey St? I love that street. Very picturesque. So many photo shoots and movies filmed there (like the intro to Jarmusch's Permanent Vacation). The front in 1980 https://youtu.be/eAc59a90PBc?t=157 https://youtu.be/eAc59a90PBc?t=157
jaydz 10y ago
In New York you have access to lynda.com, just need a library card and pin. https://www.lynda.com/portal/patron https://www.lynda.com/portal/patron

distances 10y ago

In Finland many public libraries nowadays have even 3D printers and film slide scanners, and arrange training sessions for their use. It's really a wonderful system, and probably not even that expensive considering the learning potential for even the disadvantaged citizens.

astronautjones 10y ago
This is even popular in the Southeastern US, which is pretty incredible.

SilasX 10y ago

Yes, I discovered this myself far later than I should have! The SF central branch has a really good selection of programming/tech books. Also, having a library card enables access (as you note) to a wide selection of ebooks[1]. (I note, however, that the interface that you can use them through could use some redesign.) [1] http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000005001 http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000005001

blacksmith_tb 10y ago

Plus having a library card often gets you access (even remote access!) to lots of expensive services - I use the OED, J-stor, etc. from home with gusto. I will say there's a small dark side to having gone digital, many libraries have culled a lot of their holdings, and/or can't afford to buy as many books as they once did (have to pay for those licenses somehow...). It's likely that there's less demand, but it still makes me a little sad.

superswordfish 10y ago
I haven't noticed any reduction in catalog size or variety over the years (US), maybe I've lived around well-funded systems? If anything it's become more varied with time. The only annoying thing is having to filter out eBooks every time searching the catalog.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
uxp100 10y ago
RE: culling, Yeah, there is stuff (I notice manga not reprinted since the 90s, they didn't hold up physically that well and they loaned mainly to teens) that I remember being common that has been culled. e.g. My library system doesn't have a copy of any of the volumes of "Please Save My Earth," and that was a title that many libraries had if they had any manga at all, in my experience.

randyrand 10y ago

More importantly, bookstores have to turn a profit. Libraries don't.

rayiner 10y ago
Your average bookstore makes like 5% profit (if they're not losing money). Barnes and Noble could become a non-profit tomorrow and prices would go down so little you wouldn't notice. It's not profit versus non-profit that means the difference between "affordable" and "unaffordable." It's the ability to use tax dollars to offer a service for a fraction of what it costs.

walrus01 10y ago

> Can I just say how much I love the way public libraries have navigated themselves into the digital age? yes, I also enjoy visiting the library to see the unwashed hobos jacking off to barely legal pornographic websites in a public place.

colmvp 10y ago
This seems like an unnecessarily jaded/cynical view. I'm sure there are lewd incidents that every librarian has had to deal with but I'm also sure that the vast majority of visitors/members are civil and better because of the institution.

JustSomeNobody 10y ago

Can I just say how much more civil the comments are here on HN re: libraries as opposed to, say, the last article I read on reddit[0] re: the subject. Seems the only thing they could do is complain about the homeless. [0]https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/4txauf/internet_cant_do_it_all_libraries_still_offer https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/4txauf/internet_cant...

adrusi 10y ago
Are you suggesting that it's not a legitimate grievance? Unless people are lying about, for instance, people watching porn in libraries, it does seem like there's a problem with the civility of that discussion. I haven't seen anything like that in my area, but I have seen lines of 16 or so desks being used as arcades, which can be okay so long as people remain quiet. But I've seen people have to ask gamers to leave in order to do something presumably more in-line with the goals of the library, which many people, especially kids, will be too shy to do. In theory, public libraries have been meant for people from all walks of life since their inception. But computer media have made them useful for a lot more things than intellectual pursuits, and it does seem reasonable that this would concern people. It's their taxes paying for it after all. It would be nice if people on reddit would reflect on why it bothers them that people come to the library on drugs and watch porn, but reddit doesn't have a culture of people writing out three-paragraph justifications for their opinions. I thought that it was pretty clear, though, what people are actually bothered by from the comments you uncharitably labeled "complaining about the homeless".
- forloop 10y ago
  They said it was civil. The subject shouldn't be talked about because it could offend someone, not that it wasn't legitimate.

gcb0 10y ago

the shocking truth is that the government red tape proved to be less detrimental to knowledge sharing than DRM.

dilemma 10y ago

>Bookstores have felt those pains hard; it's not that people don't want content, but they want content in different forms, and a lot of bookstores just couldn't move fast enough. I'd say rather than people preferring digital, its the browsing and buying experience of the same old printed matter that needs to change for them to stay competitive. Bookstores have until now been little more than warehouses that store books, and let people walk in and buy them. That same function is done better by Amazon. What an updated bookstore needs to be about is the experience: Curation and recommendations so that you can find books that you didn't know you'd love (this is invaluable), a nice environment that makes you want to go there and makes books feel exciting. It should also hold events - launches, readings, discussions, exhibitions, workshops. It has to be more than a warehouse, basically. This encompasses retail for all industries: Experience, service, novelty.

icebraining 10y ago
While it's not just a bookstore, I think Fnac is a good example of this: many stores have a kind of coffeeshop inside where you can read the books (for free) and where they regularly host small concerts and discussions with book and movie authors.
mooreds 10y ago
> Experience, service, novelty. And a price close enough to that found online that you can get the close. Or you're going to get showroomed. An alternative to having the price close enough is to have the price in the ballpark and have a sense of urgency such that the consumer will buy now. I have walked into Barnes and Noble and bought a book because I wanted it right then and I was out and about. Perhaps I could have had it for $5 cheaper on Amazon, but saving that $5 wasn't worth the wait. Another alternative is to have (at least some of )the physical experience be purchased--hence the coffee shops in the bookstore--you can't get hot coffee via Amazon. (Yet?)

bluedino 10y ago

I have web access at my cities public library, but that's it. They have a fiber connection, wifi, and lots of working space but you can't even access github, Dropbox, or most vps's

kazinator 10y ago

> Can I just say how much I love the way public libraries have navigated themselves into the digital age? Yes, but at the slight risk of sounding ridiculous. Libraries were computerized long before the "Internet age".

ssanders82 10y ago
He said "digital age" not "Internet age" and then he mentions access to computers, the Internet, e-books, etc. Were you just looking for a comment to criticize?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- kazinator 10y ago
  > and then he mentions access to computers, the Internet, e-books, etc From that, I inferred that "digital age" is being used to denote "Internet age".