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Working class wants to work.

throwanem 10y ago
"But robots," someone said, apparently distracted by futurism from noticing the existence of manual trades.
sillyarg 10y ago
That's one of the benefits of UBI over many welfare programs. Because it's universal, it's not cash for not working; it's cash.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> Working class wants to work. One of the principal selling points for UBI as a replacement for existing means tested social benefit programs is that it eliminates the perverse incentives created by means tested programs in which benefits are reduced by outside income (especially from work), at a rate that, in aggregate across the programs a person may be eligible for, may even exceed the after-tax income from work. A selling point it has as a replacement for minimum wage is that it provides a quality-of-life safety net without preventing work that people would willingly do, and which would be economically valuable for employers, by setting a floor on minimum hourly pay. UBI is, arguably, more in line with "working class wants to work" than the status quo it is offered to replace.
- justinpombrio 10y ago
  Translation: Currently, many social benefit programs give people less money the more they work. If a person is eligible for enough of these programs, they can even make less money by working than they would by not working. UBI (universal basic income) doesn't have this problem because it pays people the same amount regardless of weather they work. Thus, it is arguably more in line with "working class wants to work" than the status quo is. EDIT: Made translation more precise.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    That's not a precisely accurate translation, as there are plenty of social benefit programs that are not means tested beyond perhaps treating some of the benefit as normal income (e.g., Social Security), and my post was not making the "most social benefit programs" claim, only comparing UBI to those programs which are means tested (and which therefore are obvious candidates to replace with a UBI, given the usual arguments for UBI.)
    - justinpombrio 10y ago
      Yeah, it was bound to be inaccurate, because you clearly know more about this than I do! It took me a few minutes (no exaggeration) to parse your post. But you made some excellent points, so I decided to simplify it for other unlettered folks like myself. (We have a hard time picking apart 70-word long sentences.) It would be even better if you could write for us directly. Even just capping your sentences at 30 words would make a big difference, I think.
    - dbsjkdn 10y ago
      >(e.g., Social Security), Maybe true for the standard retired beneficiary, but not for everyone. A friend of mine is on SS disability. His condition changes over time and has improved some in recent years. When he can work, he has to make sure he doesn't work too much, or his benefits go away.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
andrewjl 10y ago
The working class wants to work because they derive their identity and significant meaning for existence from their jobs. Replace that with something else and this thinking will change.

"But robots," someone said, apparently distracted by futurism from noticing the existence of manual trades.

That's one of the benefits of UBI over many welfare programs. Because it's universal, it's not cash for not working; it's cash.

dragonwriter 10y ago

> Working class wants to work. One of the principal selling points for UBI as a replacement for existing means tested social benefit programs is that it eliminates the perverse incentives created by means tested programs in which benefits are reduced by outside income (especially from work), at a rate that, in aggregate across the programs a person may be eligible for, may even exceed the after-tax income from work. A selling point it has as a replacement for minimum wage is that it provides a quality-of-life safety net without preventing work that people would willingly do, and which would be economically valuable for employers, by setting a floor on minimum hourly pay. UBI is, arguably, more in line with "working class wants to work" than the status quo it is offered to replace.

justinpombrio 10y ago
Translation: Currently, many social benefit programs give people less money the more they work. If a person is eligible for enough of these programs, they can even make less money by working than they would by not working. UBI (universal basic income) doesn't have this problem because it pays people the same amount regardless of weather they work. Thus, it is arguably more in line with "working class wants to work" than the status quo is. EDIT: Made translation more precise.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  That's not a precisely accurate translation, as there are plenty of social benefit programs that are not means tested beyond perhaps treating some of the benefit as normal income (e.g., Social Security), and my post was not making the "most social benefit programs" claim, only comparing UBI to those programs which are means tested (and which therefore are obvious candidates to replace with a UBI, given the usual arguments for UBI.)
  - justinpombrio 10y ago
    Yeah, it was bound to be inaccurate, because you clearly know more about this than I do! It took me a few minutes (no exaggeration) to parse your post. But you made some excellent points, so I decided to simplify it for other unlettered folks like myself. (We have a hard time picking apart 70-word long sentences.) It would be even better if you could write for us directly. Even just capping your sentences at 30 words would make a big difference, I think.
  - dbsjkdn 10y ago
    >(e.g., Social Security), Maybe true for the standard retired beneficiary, but not for everyone. A friend of mine is on SS disability. His condition changes over time and has improved some in recent years. When he can work, he has to make sure he doesn't work too much, or his benefits go away.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

andrewjl 10y ago

The working class wants to work because they derive their identity and significant meaning for existence from their jobs. Replace that with something else and this thinking will change.