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Star Trek is only utopian if you are a massive government statist to the Nth degree.

by joobus 10y ago

Retric 10y ago
Suppose everyone on earth had to vote to either live in Star Trek's world or ours. I don't know how many would say yes, but I suspect far to many people would say yes to call it dystopian. Compare that with say Star Wars, where even fan's might have second thoughts. Or a 1984 where only the fringe would even think about it.
harlanlewis 10y ago
You're getting some downvotes, but it raises a question about the basic concept of utopia as it's been explored by many, many authors. All the ones I can think of achieve peace through homogenity and comformity, often with quite restrictive rules on how you can dress, where you can live, who you can live with, what you do for work, how you spend your leisure time… and these are legitimate attempts at exploring the qualities of potential utopias, not just setting the stage for "then it all fell down" narratives. Perhaps the area Star Trek does better than most (if one goes with the premise that it's a utopia, and really quite contradictory to it) is how humane and permissive it is with those who break the rules or fail to match the ideal (utopias don't tend to survive this kind of behavioral diversity). It might be big government, but there's still quite a bit of freedom in individual lives despite the militarized hierarchy and silly outfits. There's a great book on humanity's grasping attempts at the ideal called Imaginary Cities by Darran Anderson: https://www.amazon.com/Imaginary-Cities-Darran-Anderson/dp/0992765595 https://www.amazon.com/Imaginary-Cities-Darran-Anderson/dp/0...
- Retric 10y ago
  The impression I got of Star Trek is outside of Starfleet was the utopia. Much like how Special Circumstances was the Culture outlet for specific kinds of people. Large segments of the population in both universes live the bohemian artist lifestyle even if they are not great artists and that's considered completely ok. But, well they don't live the kind of lives that you want to read about. In the Culture novels you could live a hundred years as a dolphin, a decade contemplating Zen as house plant, and then decide you want to stop navel gazing and do something. Star Trek lacks immortality, but people still tend to live the kind of lives they chose to.
- mitchty 10y ago
  I'm not sure if it applies, but in later series like DS9/enterprise we see another side of the federation in regards to section 31 which is effectively a three letter agency that is responsible for all the dirty work of keeping the utopia afloat. We also see that they are really willing to do whatever is necessary to citizens as well. I'm not sure we can consider the world of Star Trek a utopia, at least I can't, but it definitely is a case of overall better in life outcomes for most of the people within its grasp.

Star Trek is only utopian if you are a massive government statist to the Nth degree.

by joobus 10y ago

Star Trek is only utopian if you are a massive government statist to the Nth degree.

Suppose everyone on earth had to vote to either live in Star Trek's world or ours. I don't know how many would say yes, but I suspect far to many people would say yes to call it dystopian. Compare that with say Star Wars, where even fan's might have second thoughts. Or a 1984 where only the fringe would even think about it.

harlanlewis 10y ago

You're getting some downvotes, but it raises a question about the basic concept of utopia as it's been explored by many, many authors. All the ones I can think of achieve peace through homogenity and comformity, often with quite restrictive rules on how you can dress, where you can live, who you can live with, what you do for work, how you spend your leisure time… and these are legitimate attempts at exploring the qualities of potential utopias, not just setting the stage for "then it all fell down" narratives. Perhaps the area Star Trek does better than most (if one goes with the premise that it's a utopia, and really quite contradictory to it) is how humane and permissive it is with those who break the rules or fail to match the ideal (utopias don't tend to survive this kind of behavioral diversity). It might be big government, but there's still quite a bit of freedom in individual lives despite the militarized hierarchy and silly outfits. There's a great book on humanity's grasping attempts at the ideal called Imaginary Cities by Darran Anderson: https://www.amazon.com/Imaginary-Cities-Darran-Anderson/dp/0992765595 https://www.amazon.com/Imaginary-Cities-Darran-Anderson/dp/0...

Retric 10y ago
The impression I got of Star Trek is outside of Starfleet was the utopia. Much like how Special Circumstances was the Culture outlet for specific kinds of people. Large segments of the population in both universes live the bohemian artist lifestyle even if they are not great artists and that's considered completely ok. But, well they don't live the kind of lives that you want to read about. In the Culture novels you could live a hundred years as a dolphin, a decade contemplating Zen as house plant, and then decide you want to stop navel gazing and do something. Star Trek lacks immortality, but people still tend to live the kind of lives they chose to.
mitchty 10y ago
I'm not sure if it applies, but in later series like DS9/enterprise we see another side of the federation in regards to section 31 which is effectively a three letter agency that is responsible for all the dirty work of keeping the utopia afloat. We also see that they are really willing to do whatever is necessary to citizens as well. I'm not sure we can consider the world of Star Trek a utopia, at least I can't, but it definitely is a case of overall better in life outcomes for most of the people within its grasp.