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I'm writing this comment from a tech conference, which seems oddly fitting. I find exactly the same problem with modern tech tooling (especially on the fronten

I'm writing this comment from a tech conference, which seems oddly fitting. I find exactly the same problem with modern tech tooling (especially on the frontend). We, the tech community, celebrate tool builders and so we all try to build tools. We end up with a fantastic ecosystem of many diverse ideas pinging off of each other. In this situation we all win - sorta. I write a bunch of Angular 1. React and Angular 2 are both superb libraries that allow me to build a great frontend UI. There are four React talks and a full-day workshop all communicating the _How_ of React [0]. We're building tools for the sake of tools - continually answering the 'how' with the latest framework without consideration for the end purpose, our 'why'. > If you wish to build a ship, do not divide the men into teams and send them to the forest to cut wood. Instead, teach them to long for the vast and endless sea. The current state of tech as I see it is that we're pumping out endless tutorials on logging [1] but never teaching devs to yearn for the endless sea. [0] I'm picking on React here but this is just one example out of many. [1] Pun intended

throwaway13337 10y ago
Futurism is how you get there. It's unfortunate that most popular future imaginings are post-apoc or dystopian. But we were once there with the idyllic old star trek universe - one where humanity used tech to utopian ends. We can get there again. We just need new visionaries. Maybe games are the best place to envision such futures?
- RKoutnik 10y ago
  Do you have any recommendations on modern scifi that fits the futurism bill? There's lots of great stuff (Expanse is my current favorite) that seems to be summed up as "And then things got worse"
  - ethbro 10y ago
    I think it's arguable Bank's Culture is essentially utopian. Most of the books tend to be about edge cases, because "and they lived their lives and contributed to society" doesn't make for great plot. But the vast majority seems to be using technology to realize their hopes and dreams. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_series
    - RKoutnik 10y ago
      Oh, good to hear. That's the one that SpaceX named their barges after? The series has been on my to-read list, I'll bump it up in priority.
      - igravious 10y ago
        Better bump that baby. Start with Excession.
        sulam 10y ago
        I always tell people to start with Player of Games. Haven't missed yet.
        pault 10y ago
        I still can't decide which book to tell people to start with. Excession was my favorite, since it features the hilariously snarky interactions between the Minds so much more than the other books. Hydrogen Sonata was also really good for all the backstory about the Culture and the Sublime, which was only hinted at in other stories. And then there's Use of Weapons, since Zakalwe is arguable the most interesting character in the series, and the mind-blowing ending. I could go on. :) I guess my only advice to first time readers is to pick any novel and even if you don't love it immediately, read another one. The series really grows on you.
      - pault 10y ago
        I picked up Player of Games on a recommendation here on HN and devoured every Banks book I could get my hands on for the next six months. If Banks had written a phone book I'd read it. I was so depressed when I finally finished all of them (he passed from a brain tumor in his prime, a terrible loss). The Culture novels are some of the few books I've read that really expanded my perception of humanity. Also the best thought experiment on human sexuality I've ever encountered.
        throwanem 10y ago
        > The Culture novels are some of the few books I've read that really expanded my perception of humanity. If that's what you are after, I can really recommend Peter Watts. Fair warning, though: don't expect to enjoy him.
  - zardo 10y ago
    Hieroglyph: Stories & Visions for a Better Future http://hieroglyph.asu.edu http://hieroglyph.asu.edu
- joobus 10y ago
  Star Trek is only utopian if you are a massive government statist to the Nth degree.
  - Retric 10y ago
    Suppose everyone on earth had to vote to either live in Star Trek's world or ours. I don't know how many would say yes, but I suspect far to many people would say yes to call it dystopian. Compare that with say Star Wars, where even fan's might have second thoughts. Or a 1984 where only the fringe would even think about it.
  - harlanlewis 10y ago
    You're getting some downvotes, but it raises a question about the basic concept of utopia as it's been explored by many, many authors. All the ones I can think of achieve peace through homogenity and comformity, often with quite restrictive rules on how you can dress, where you can live, who you can live with, what you do for work, how you spend your leisure time… and these are legitimate attempts at exploring the qualities of potential utopias, not just setting the stage for "then it all fell down" narratives. Perhaps the area Star Trek does better than most (if one goes with the premise that it's a utopia, and really quite contradictory to it) is how humane and permissive it is with those who break the rules or fail to match the ideal (utopias don't tend to survive this kind of behavioral diversity). It might be big government, but there's still quite a bit of freedom in individual lives despite the militarized hierarchy and silly outfits. There's a great book on humanity's grasping attempts at the ideal called Imaginary Cities by Darran Anderson: https://www.amazon.com/Imaginary-Cities-Darran-Anderson/dp/0992765595 https://www.amazon.com/Imaginary-Cities-Darran-Anderson/dp/0...
    - Retric 10y ago
      The impression I got of Star Trek is outside of Starfleet was the utopia. Much like how Special Circumstances was the Culture outlet for specific kinds of people. Large segments of the population in both universes live the bohemian artist lifestyle even if they are not great artists and that's considered completely ok. But, well they don't live the kind of lives that you want to read about. In the Culture novels you could live a hundred years as a dolphin, a decade contemplating Zen as house plant, and then decide you want to stop navel gazing and do something. Star Trek lacks immortality, but people still tend to live the kind of lives they chose to.
ethbro 10y ago
Because I had to know where that quote was from: http://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/08/25/sea/ http://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/08/25/sea/ (summary: probably paraphrased French aviator and writer Antoine de Saint-Exupéry) The perhaps original inspiration is equally beautiful (rendered from French): One will weave the canvas; another will fell a tree by the light of his ax. Yet another will forge nails, and there will be others who observe the stars to learn how to navigate. And yet all will be as one. Building a boat isn’t about weaving canvas, forging nails, or reading the sky. It’s about giving a shared taste for the sea, by the light of which you will see nothing contradictory but rather a community of love.
- RKoutnik 10y ago
  I hadn't heard the full quote - that is beautiful. Thanks for sourcing it!
FussyZeus 10y ago
I think the obsession with tools and tooling is partially related to us "waking up" as an industry from a long time of Not Invented Here syndrome. That being said, the endless catalog of frameworks becomes incredibly tiresome.
Camillo 10y ago
I'm not sure you think why "we" (who?) need to teach devs to "yearn for the endless sea". We're literally talking about the endless sea some dev made, and we're unhappy because we wanted an endless critique of capitalism instead.

throwaway13337 10y ago

Futurism is how you get there. It's unfortunate that most popular future imaginings are post-apoc or dystopian. But we were once there with the idyllic old star trek universe - one where humanity used tech to utopian ends. We can get there again. We just need new visionaries. Maybe games are the best place to envision such futures?

RKoutnik 10y ago
Do you have any recommendations on modern scifi that fits the futurism bill? There's lots of great stuff (Expanse is my current favorite) that seems to be summed up as "And then things got worse"
- ethbro 10y ago
  I think it's arguable Bank's Culture is essentially utopian. Most of the books tend to be about edge cases, because "and they lived their lives and contributed to society" doesn't make for great plot. But the vast majority seems to be using technology to realize their hopes and dreams. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_series
  - RKoutnik 10y ago
    Oh, good to hear. That's the one that SpaceX named their barges after? The series has been on my to-read list, I'll bump it up in priority.
    - igravious 10y ago
      Better bump that baby. Start with Excession.
      - sulam 10y ago
        I always tell people to start with Player of Games. Haven't missed yet.
      - pault 10y ago
        I still can't decide which book to tell people to start with. Excession was my favorite, since it features the hilariously snarky interactions between the Minds so much more than the other books. Hydrogen Sonata was also really good for all the backstory about the Culture and the Sublime, which was only hinted at in other stories. And then there's Use of Weapons, since Zakalwe is arguable the most interesting character in the series, and the mind-blowing ending. I could go on. :) I guess my only advice to first time readers is to pick any novel and even if you don't love it immediately, read another one. The series really grows on you.
    - pault 10y ago
      I picked up Player of Games on a recommendation here on HN and devoured every Banks book I could get my hands on for the next six months. If Banks had written a phone book I'd read it. I was so depressed when I finally finished all of them (he passed from a brain tumor in his prime, a terrible loss). The Culture novels are some of the few books I've read that really expanded my perception of humanity. Also the best thought experiment on human sexuality I've ever encountered.
      - throwanem 10y ago
        > The Culture novels are some of the few books I've read that really expanded my perception of humanity. If that's what you are after, I can really recommend Peter Watts. Fair warning, though: don't expect to enjoy him.
- zardo 10y ago
  Hieroglyph: Stories & Visions for a Better Future http://hieroglyph.asu.edu http://hieroglyph.asu.edu
joobus 10y ago
Star Trek is only utopian if you are a massive government statist to the Nth degree.
- Retric 10y ago
  Suppose everyone on earth had to vote to either live in Star Trek's world or ours. I don't know how many would say yes, but I suspect far to many people would say yes to call it dystopian. Compare that with say Star Wars, where even fan's might have second thoughts. Or a 1984 where only the fringe would even think about it.
- harlanlewis 10y ago
  You're getting some downvotes, but it raises a question about the basic concept of utopia as it's been explored by many, many authors. All the ones I can think of achieve peace through homogenity and comformity, often with quite restrictive rules on how you can dress, where you can live, who you can live with, what you do for work, how you spend your leisure time… and these are legitimate attempts at exploring the qualities of potential utopias, not just setting the stage for "then it all fell down" narratives. Perhaps the area Star Trek does better than most (if one goes with the premise that it's a utopia, and really quite contradictory to it) is how humane and permissive it is with those who break the rules or fail to match the ideal (utopias don't tend to survive this kind of behavioral diversity). It might be big government, but there's still quite a bit of freedom in individual lives despite the militarized hierarchy and silly outfits. There's a great book on humanity's grasping attempts at the ideal called Imaginary Cities by Darran Anderson: https://www.amazon.com/Imaginary-Cities-Darran-Anderson/dp/0992765595 https://www.amazon.com/Imaginary-Cities-Darran-Anderson/dp/0...
  - Retric 10y ago
    The impression I got of Star Trek is outside of Starfleet was the utopia. Much like how Special Circumstances was the Culture outlet for specific kinds of people. Large segments of the population in both universes live the bohemian artist lifestyle even if they are not great artists and that's considered completely ok. But, well they don't live the kind of lives that you want to read about. In the Culture novels you could live a hundred years as a dolphin, a decade contemplating Zen as house plant, and then decide you want to stop navel gazing and do something. Star Trek lacks immortality, but people still tend to live the kind of lives they chose to.

ethbro 10y ago

Because I had to know where that quote was from: http://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/08/25/sea/ http://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/08/25/sea/ (summary: probably paraphrased French aviator and writer Antoine de Saint-Exupéry) The perhaps original inspiration is equally beautiful (rendered from French): One will weave the canvas; another will fell a tree by the light of his ax. Yet another will forge nails, and there will be others who observe the stars to learn how to navigate. And yet all will be as one. Building a boat isn’t about weaving canvas, forging nails, or reading the sky. It’s about giving a shared taste for the sea, by the light of which you will see nothing contradictory but rather a community of love.

RKoutnik 10y ago
I hadn't heard the full quote - that is beautiful. Thanks for sourcing it!

FussyZeus 10y ago

I think the obsession with tools and tooling is partially related to us "waking up" as an industry from a long time of Not Invented Here syndrome. That being said, the endless catalog of frameworks becomes incredibly tiresome.

Camillo 10y ago

I'm not sure you think why "we" (who?) need to teach devs to "yearn for the endless sea". We're literally talking about the endless sea some dev made, and we're unhappy because we wanted an endless critique of capitalism instead.