4 ms·

Laptop manufacturers could also just avoid this problem by using modems that don't require proprietary drivers or firmware, like those from Intel or Atheros. T

Laptop manufacturers could also just avoid this problem by using modems that don't require proprietary drivers or firmware, like those from Intel or Atheros. This is an entirely avoidable problem.

syshum 10y ago
The side effect is the Intel and Atheros are better anyway, BroadCom Wifi is utter crap IMO
pjmlp 10y ago
Android and the first wave of Netbooks with GNU/Linux prove what manufacturers actually think of it.
AdmiralAsshat 10y ago
I debated calling out the manufacturers as well, but it seemed unfair with the example of my Dell XPS 13. The laptop is installed with Windows by default, and the Broadcom card works just fine there. The XPS 13 Developer Edition (which is pre-loaded with Ubuntu) actually takes your advice and packages an Intel wifi card instead. Certainly they can try to push the "Sell laptops with Linux preloaded and make sure everything works" approach (because let's face it, that's pretty much the only reason why Windows laptops are pervasive), but if you're trying to increase the number of people using Linux, I'd suggest that they might get better results as the thing one uses to repurpose their existing laptop.
- deong 10y ago
  I'll also give Dell some much-deserved credit for making available a full repair manual for their laptops (or at least some of them). I bought the Windows variant of the XPS 13 because Costco had the 16GB i7 model for $500 cheaper, and Dell gives you complete instructions for things like replacing the WiFi card. Linux support isn't 100% perfect for me, by the way, but it's very usable. The main problem I still have is that power management is mediocre (I can't get it below about 8 watts idle generally), and the USB-C dongle you need for ethernet is very flaky under the current kernels. It works, but often requires unplugging and replugging for it to be recognized, and (very) occasionally completely hangs the machine a few seconds after I plug it in.
- mbrock 10y ago
  My XPS 13 Developer Edition has the Broadcom card, which makes it annoying to install distros. The proprietary driver has worked without problem as far as I can tell, but I'd really prefer a free driver. (I do think it's fair to call out Dell for selling a Linux developer machine that can't even connect to the internet without proprietary drivers. There's no Ethernet port either.) On the plus side, the retina touch screen works great. Even on my custom NixOS setup it gives me smooth scrolling and even pinch-to-zoom in Chromium Google Maps. Pretty cool.
  - AdmiralAsshat 10y ago
    Sorry to hear, I think your batch must have been one of the early ones. My understanding is that most DE laptops had an Intel card, particularly the models sold in Europe.
    - vetinari 10y ago
      XPS13 (2016, Skylake) DE has Intel WiFi. Previous generation (2015) DE has Broadcom WiFi. The Intel cards are nothing to write home about, either. Their only redeeming qualities are the availability of a free driver and Just Works experience in Linux. Otherwise, they are quite slow - so I understand why Dell puts Broadcom into Windows version.
- passiveincomelg 10y ago
  Why didn't you buy the developer edition?
  - AdmiralAsshat 10y ago
    Because I saw someone selling a barely-used i7/8GB/512gb SSD of the non-dev edition on Craigslist for $800. Similar specs new would've been around the $2k mark. Additionally, I was fine running Windows 10 at first and doing all my dev work in a Fedora VM, but the Anniversary Update has pissed me off considerably, leading me to want to migrate to a bare-metal Linux installation.
    - passiveincomelg 10y ago
      Oh yeah that's a great deal. :)
    - mwcampbell 10y ago
      Just curious, what pissed you off about the Windows 10 Anniversary Update? That update hasn't made it to my PC just yet.
      - naibafo 10y ago
        I think what pissed of many users was that the update messes with your settings once again, and that Cortana cannot be disabled anymore without messing around in the registry. Another point was that they forgot to turn off some debugging option they had presumably activated for their developers which opened up a big vulnerability.
  - izacus 10y ago
    I tried buying it here in EU and the local Dell distributor flatly told me that they can't procure it at all. Figure that O.o
    - talideon 10y ago
      I got one of the original XPS 13 DEs, and a friend of mine had no issues picking up the latest revision recently enough. If you want something a bit bigger, but that just works, the E5510 is excellent, especially once you have Ubuntu 16.04.1 (or a distro with the 4.4.0 kernel) on it.
therealidiot 10y ago
I thought you still have to load proprietary firmware onto Intel cards?

Laptop manufacturers could also just avoid this problem by using modems that don't require proprietary drivers or firmware, like those from Intel or Atheros. This is an entirely avoidable problem.

syshum 10y ago

The side effect is the Intel and Atheros are better anyway, BroadCom Wifi is utter crap IMO

pjmlp 10y ago

Android and the first wave of Netbooks with GNU/Linux prove what manufacturers actually think of it.

AdmiralAsshat 10y ago

I debated calling out the manufacturers as well, but it seemed unfair with the example of my Dell XPS 13. The laptop is installed with Windows by default, and the Broadcom card works just fine there. The XPS 13 Developer Edition (which is pre-loaded with Ubuntu) actually takes your advice and packages an Intel wifi card instead. Certainly they can try to push the "Sell laptops with Linux preloaded and make sure everything works" approach (because let's face it, that's pretty much the only reason why Windows laptops are pervasive), but if you're trying to increase the number of people using Linux, I'd suggest that they might get better results as the thing one uses to repurpose their existing laptop.

deong 10y ago
I'll also give Dell some much-deserved credit for making available a full repair manual for their laptops (or at least some of them). I bought the Windows variant of the XPS 13 because Costco had the 16GB i7 model for $500 cheaper, and Dell gives you complete instructions for things like replacing the WiFi card. Linux support isn't 100% perfect for me, by the way, but it's very usable. The main problem I still have is that power management is mediocre (I can't get it below about 8 watts idle generally), and the USB-C dongle you need for ethernet is very flaky under the current kernels. It works, but often requires unplugging and replugging for it to be recognized, and (very) occasionally completely hangs the machine a few seconds after I plug it in.
mbrock 10y ago
My XPS 13 Developer Edition has the Broadcom card, which makes it annoying to install distros. The proprietary driver has worked without problem as far as I can tell, but I'd really prefer a free driver. (I do think it's fair to call out Dell for selling a Linux developer machine that can't even connect to the internet without proprietary drivers. There's no Ethernet port either.) On the plus side, the retina touch screen works great. Even on my custom NixOS setup it gives me smooth scrolling and even pinch-to-zoom in Chromium Google Maps. Pretty cool.
- AdmiralAsshat 10y ago
  Sorry to hear, I think your batch must have been one of the early ones. My understanding is that most DE laptops had an Intel card, particularly the models sold in Europe.
  - vetinari 10y ago
    XPS13 (2016, Skylake) DE has Intel WiFi. Previous generation (2015) DE has Broadcom WiFi. The Intel cards are nothing to write home about, either. Their only redeeming qualities are the availability of a free driver and Just Works experience in Linux. Otherwise, they are quite slow - so I understand why Dell puts Broadcom into Windows version.
passiveincomelg 10y ago
Why didn't you buy the developer edition?
- AdmiralAsshat 10y ago
  Because I saw someone selling a barely-used i7/8GB/512gb SSD of the non-dev edition on Craigslist for $800. Similar specs new would've been around the $2k mark. Additionally, I was fine running Windows 10 at first and doing all my dev work in a Fedora VM, but the Anniversary Update has pissed me off considerably, leading me to want to migrate to a bare-metal Linux installation.
  - passiveincomelg 10y ago
    Oh yeah that's a great deal. :)
  - mwcampbell 10y ago
    Just curious, what pissed you off about the Windows 10 Anniversary Update? That update hasn't made it to my PC just yet.
    - naibafo 10y ago
      I think what pissed of many users was that the update messes with your settings once again, and that Cortana cannot be disabled anymore without messing around in the registry. Another point was that they forgot to turn off some debugging option they had presumably activated for their developers which opened up a big vulnerability.
- izacus 10y ago
  I tried buying it here in EU and the local Dell distributor flatly told me that they can't procure it at all. Figure that O.o
  - talideon 10y ago
    I got one of the original XPS 13 DEs, and a friend of mine had no issues picking up the latest revision recently enough. If you want something a bit bigger, but that just works, the E5510 is excellent, especially once you have Ubuntu 16.04.1 (or a distro with the 4.4.0 kernel) on it.

therealidiot 10y ago

I thought you still have to load proprietary firmware onto Intel cards?