5 ms·

A Startup Turns to Saffron to Help Afghanistan Regrow

71 points by miraj 10y ago

rezashirazian 10y ago
I come from an Iranian background and saffron is a staple in Iranian cuisine. I'm not sure how much demand it would have in western cuisines, although according to the article it's used in some spanish and french dishes. It would be interesting to see where this goes.
- milcron 10y ago
  Yes, I use saffron to cook paella, a spanish dish. Saffron is quite valuable, so it should make a good cash crop!
- SerLava 10y ago
  It's surely not in many houses in the west but it's at every supermarket.
- pazimzadeh 10y ago
  I'm half French and half Iranian. I love saffron. It would be nice if the local Mediterranean/Indian/Iranian restaurants had access to more saffron, instead of diluting it with orange coloring.
- intended 10y ago
  Saffron is used a lot in Indian food. I'd look east for both markets and competitors.
- Pamar 10y ago
  It is used (mostly for pasta and rice) in Italian cuisine, too. Example: http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/saffron-risotto-238643 http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/saffron-risotto...
AndrewKemendo 10y ago
These are some of my best friends and fellow veterans. We couldn't be prouder of what they are doing. They are part of YC's fellowship as well if that wasn't already known. What you all here might be interested in that isn't discussed is how they are opening up and transforming logistics and supply chain into previously closed markets. That is the huge opportunity here that few have the skills or background to properly navigate. These are still hard to win supply lines, but there are openings there. Congrats Kim and Emily!
- mc32 10y ago
  This is a great idea and hopefully offers another opportunity for some of the farmers there and helps grow their economy one step at a time.
- vozho 10y ago
  You're proud of murderers? Because that's what they are. It's like bombing a country even though it posed no direct threat to your country, and then sending aid. Even if they personally didn't kill anybody, they occupied a foreign country under orders of US government and would kill easily if ordered. But good job for the business otherwise.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
kimboleek 10y ago
Hi friends, I'm Kim, the CEO of Rumi. We're so excited to be one of the YC fellows, and we would love to answer any questions if you have any. Shoot! And buy saffron please- makes excellent gifts.
- 0xmohit 10y ago
  I thought that you would be shipping internationally. Appears to be limited to the US.
  - kimboleek 10y ago
    Great question. We do ship internationally for B2B orders but must contact us directly. Info@rumispice.com. Otherwise it doesn't make any sense for us to service customers directly to other countries unless we can find a distributor
- iamcreasy 10y ago
  Your startup warms my heart. Kudos.
- omegant 10y ago
  Hi, I recently tryed to help export saffron to Spain to an Afghan. He was introduced to me by an Afghan doctor who is volunteer at the same NGO as me. I contacted several Spanish saffron distributors. I think that this guy was afraid of the value of the shipments and was unable to make his mind around the conditions the distributor was setting (they seemed quite logical to me) It was a pitty cause I thought, as you do, that it could be a good way to help Afghanistan. One think that I learned talking to the spanish distributor (Spain is a mayor exporter of saffron but unable to keep the production up with the international demand, so it's importing from Morocco and Iran in large quantities) is that it's very easy to get scammed with the quality by the producers if they get greedy. Analisys take time and must be done on all batches. So this distributor delays the payment till the results confirm the quality of the shipment. How do you deal with quality control and scams in Afghanistan? Best of luck for your project!
6stringmerc 10y ago
Please pardon my question if it's inappropriate, but isn't saffron prized for psychoactive potential in the black market? I'm ignorant about the scale to make it worthwhile considering this memory is based on some illegal logging elsewhere in the world. I'm simply curious because rebuilding in Afghanistan - or really any place that the world tends to ignore - is an absolutely human, noble cause and I hope for positive outcomes!
- aab0 10y ago
  I think you might be confusing saffron with poppies. Saffron is sufficiently expensive and widely used in cuisine it's hard to see it being popular for any psychoactive properties it might have compared to, say, nutmeg.
  - regrewarvreq 10y ago
    He is confusing it with sassafras, as I did upon first glance.
    - 6stringmerc 10y ago
      Ah! Thanks! Good to know there's a strong market for a spice without the baggage. Appreciate the clarification for sure.
  - kimboleek 10y ago
    Yes, agreed!
DominikR 10y ago
When I read such articles I can't help but feel that Western civilisation is suicidal. Maybe you don't know in the US but we here in the EU took large numbers of Afghans in and you wouldn't even believe the numbers of women and children these "refugees" have raped in my country. They literally want us dead and regard us as sub human (or slaves) because we don't follow their religion. And still you want to help them. This is insane!
roymurdock 10y ago
I worked at a telecom company in Afghanistan a few years ago when the country was relatively safe. I'd like to leave HNer's with some statistics that are not included in the NYTimes article that might explain why it is so vital to move any part of the agricultural crop away from opium: Afghanistan's opium production currently goes into more than 90% of heroin worldwide. According to a UN doc cited on wikipedia, production reached a peak in 1999 with a bumper crop of 4,500 metric tons. [1] Shortly afterwards in 2000, 99% of poppy cultivation in Afghanistan was wiped out by the Taliban, who controlled Afghanistan with an iron fist and declared the cultivation of poppy "un-islamic". This amounted to a 75% reduction in the world supply of opium. So total world production was ~6,000 metric tons in 1999. According to this 2014 UN report [2] the total area of opium poppy cultivation in Afghanistan was estimated at 224,000 hectares with an average yield of 28.7kg/hectare. Converting this to metric tons: 224,000 * 28.7 / 1,000 = 6,429 metric tons of opium produced. Report cites a possible range from 5,100-7,800 metric tons produced. So not only is Afghanistan back to pre-Taliban production levels, it is producing more than the entire world production of opium in 1999. This is just 15 years after a 99% eradication of the crop in the region. Ironically, opium production has ramped up massively since 2002, under US/Karzai governance. The farm gate value of this opium is only $850m. Using an average of the conversion ratios cited in the report (18.5:1 for pure heroin, 9.6:1 for export-grade heroin) and a price of $60,000USD/kg of heroin [3] we get a total processed value of $27.4bn. That's a crazy amount of value locked into processing and distribution. Any amount of possible change towards other crops will be hugely beneficial for smaller-scale farmers who do not wish (or do not have the connections) to sell into the drug trade, and who only see 1/30th of the processed value of their crop. Not to mention it will be putting a dent in the world supply of heroin. This is an ambitious and well-intentioned project. I'm glad to see HN sponsoring these types of ventures, especially as it falls outside the scope of the tech world and does not have the TAM/SAM/SOM projections that I'm sure VCs dream about. Good luck to the founding team, and stay safe. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_production_in_Afghanistan#cite_ref-13 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_production_in_Afghanista... [2] https://www.unodc.org/documents/crop-monitoring/Afghanistan/Afghan-opium-survey-2014.pdf https://www.unodc.org/documents/crop-monitoring/Afghanistan/... [3] http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-drug-dealers-next-door-how-nyc-heroin-mills-are-blending-in/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-drug-dealers-next-door-how-n...
lnanek2 10y ago
Pretty bizarre we haven't genetically modified a saffron yet to have more than three little threads of spice produced per flower. Heck, considering the variety our race managed to breed dogs into and the amount of change we created in corn and other projects, you'd think we could have done that with selective breeding alone.
fny 10y ago
A few ponderings: - Using saffron as a means to transform poppy fields is a 12-year-old+ idea[0] that doesn't seem to have made a dent in opimium production, which has skyrocketed since 2004.[1] What makes this iteration different? - In 2011, saffron prices dropped 60% to due to an oversupply.[2] Given that the market for saffron is relatively established, isn't there concern that Rumi's growth might outpace demand and cause a similar price drop? - What makes Rumi different than current companies run by locals such as the Afghan Saffron Company?[3] [0]: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/1458504/Afghan-farmers-turn-to-saffron-as-replacement-for-their-opium-crops.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/1... [1]: https://publicintelligence.net/unodc-afghan-opium-survey-2015/ https://publicintelligence.net/unodc-afghan-opium-survey-201... [2]: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-13848820 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-13848820 [3]: http://www.afghansaffron.com/ http://www.afghansaffron.com/

71 points by miraj 10y ago

I come from an Iranian background and saffron is a staple in Iranian cuisine. I'm not sure how much demand it would have in western cuisines, although according to the article it's used in some spanish and french dishes. It would be interesting to see where this goes.

milcron 10y ago
Yes, I use saffron to cook paella, a spanish dish. Saffron is quite valuable, so it should make a good cash crop!
SerLava 10y ago
It's surely not in many houses in the west but it's at every supermarket.
pazimzadeh 10y ago
I'm half French and half Iranian. I love saffron. It would be nice if the local Mediterranean/Indian/Iranian restaurants had access to more saffron, instead of diluting it with orange coloring.
intended 10y ago
Saffron is used a lot in Indian food. I'd look east for both markets and competitors.
Pamar 10y ago
It is used (mostly for pasta and rice) in Italian cuisine, too. Example: http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/saffron-risotto-238643 http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/food/views/saffron-risotto...

AndrewKemendo 10y ago

These are some of my best friends and fellow veterans. We couldn't be prouder of what they are doing. They are part of YC's fellowship as well if that wasn't already known. What you all here might be interested in that isn't discussed is how they are opening up and transforming logistics and supply chain into previously closed markets. That is the huge opportunity here that few have the skills or background to properly navigate. These are still hard to win supply lines, but there are openings there. Congrats Kim and Emily!

mc32 10y ago
This is a great idea and hopefully offers another opportunity for some of the farmers there and helps grow their economy one step at a time.
vozho 10y ago
You're proud of murderers? Because that's what they are. It's like bombing a country even though it posed no direct threat to your country, and then sending aid. Even if they personally didn't kill anybody, they occupied a foreign country under orders of US government and would kill easily if ordered. But good job for the business otherwise.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

kimboleek 10y ago

Hi friends, I'm Kim, the CEO of Rumi. We're so excited to be one of the YC fellows, and we would love to answer any questions if you have any. Shoot! And buy saffron please- makes excellent gifts.

0xmohit 10y ago
I thought that you would be shipping internationally. Appears to be limited to the US.
- kimboleek 10y ago
  Great question. We do ship internationally for B2B orders but must contact us directly. Info@rumispice.com. Otherwise it doesn't make any sense for us to service customers directly to other countries unless we can find a distributor
iamcreasy 10y ago
Your startup warms my heart. Kudos.
omegant 10y ago
Hi, I recently tryed to help export saffron to Spain to an Afghan. He was introduced to me by an Afghan doctor who is volunteer at the same NGO as me. I contacted several Spanish saffron distributors. I think that this guy was afraid of the value of the shipments and was unable to make his mind around the conditions the distributor was setting (they seemed quite logical to me) It was a pitty cause I thought, as you do, that it could be a good way to help Afghanistan. One think that I learned talking to the spanish distributor (Spain is a mayor exporter of saffron but unable to keep the production up with the international demand, so it's importing from Morocco and Iran in large quantities) is that it's very easy to get scammed with the quality by the producers if they get greedy. Analisys take time and must be done on all batches. So this distributor delays the payment till the results confirm the quality of the shipment. How do you deal with quality control and scams in Afghanistan? Best of luck for your project!

6stringmerc 10y ago

Please pardon my question if it's inappropriate, but isn't saffron prized for psychoactive potential in the black market? I'm ignorant about the scale to make it worthwhile considering this memory is based on some illegal logging elsewhere in the world. I'm simply curious because rebuilding in Afghanistan - or really any place that the world tends to ignore - is an absolutely human, noble cause and I hope for positive outcomes!

aab0 10y ago
I think you might be confusing saffron with poppies. Saffron is sufficiently expensive and widely used in cuisine it's hard to see it being popular for any psychoactive properties it might have compared to, say, nutmeg.
- regrewarvreq 10y ago
  He is confusing it with sassafras, as I did upon first glance.
  - 6stringmerc 10y ago
    Ah! Thanks! Good to know there's a strong market for a spice without the baggage. Appreciate the clarification for sure.
- kimboleek 10y ago
  Yes, agreed!

DominikR 10y ago

When I read such articles I can't help but feel that Western civilisation is suicidal. Maybe you don't know in the US but we here in the EU took large numbers of Afghans in and you wouldn't even believe the numbers of women and children these "refugees" have raped in my country. They literally want us dead and regard us as sub human (or slaves) because we don't follow their religion. And still you want to help them. This is insane!

roymurdock 10y ago

I worked at a telecom company in Afghanistan a few years ago when the country was relatively safe. I'd like to leave HNer's with some statistics that are not included in the NYTimes article that might explain why it is so vital to move any part of the agricultural crop away from opium: Afghanistan's opium production currently goes into more than 90% of heroin worldwide. According to a UN doc cited on wikipedia, production reached a peak in 1999 with a bumper crop of 4,500 metric tons. [1] Shortly afterwards in 2000, 99% of poppy cultivation in Afghanistan was wiped out by the Taliban, who controlled Afghanistan with an iron fist and declared the cultivation of poppy "un-islamic". This amounted to a 75% reduction in the world supply of opium. So total world production was ~6,000 metric tons in 1999. According to this 2014 UN report [2] the total area of opium poppy cultivation in Afghanistan was estimated at 224,000 hectares with an average yield of 28.7kg/hectare. Converting this to metric tons: 224,000 * 28.7 / 1,000 = 6,429 metric tons of opium produced. Report cites a possible range from 5,100-7,800 metric tons produced. So not only is Afghanistan back to pre-Taliban production levels, it is producing more than the entire world production of opium in 1999. This is just 15 years after a 99% eradication of the crop in the region. Ironically, opium production has ramped up massively since 2002, under US/Karzai governance. The farm gate value of this opium is only $850m. Using an average of the conversion ratios cited in the report (18.5:1 for pure heroin, 9.6:1 for export-grade heroin) and a price of $60,000USD/kg of heroin [3] we get a total processed value of $27.4bn. That's a crazy amount of value locked into processing and distribution. Any amount of possible change towards other crops will be hugely beneficial for smaller-scale farmers who do not wish (or do not have the connections) to sell into the drug trade, and who only see 1/30th of the processed value of their crop. Not to mention it will be putting a dent in the world supply of heroin. This is an ambitious and well-intentioned project. I'm glad to see HN sponsoring these types of ventures, especially as it falls outside the scope of the tech world and does not have the TAM/SAM/SOM projections that I'm sure VCs dream about. Good luck to the founding team, and stay safe. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_production_in_Afghanistan#cite_ref-13 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_production_in_Afghanista... [2] https://www.unodc.org/documents/crop-monitoring/Afghanistan/Afghan-opium-survey-2014.pdf https://www.unodc.org/documents/crop-monitoring/Afghanistan/... [3] http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-drug-dealers-next-door-how-nyc-heroin-mills-are-blending-in/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-drug-dealers-next-door-how-n...

lnanek2 10y ago

Pretty bizarre we haven't genetically modified a saffron yet to have more than three little threads of spice produced per flower. Heck, considering the variety our race managed to breed dogs into and the amount of change we created in corn and other projects, you'd think we could have done that with selective breeding alone.

fny 10y ago

A few ponderings: - Using saffron as a means to transform poppy fields is a 12-year-old+ idea[0] that doesn't seem to have made a dent in opimium production, which has skyrocketed since 2004.[1] What makes this iteration different? - In 2011, saffron prices dropped 60% to due to an oversupply.[2] Given that the market for saffron is relatively established, isn't there concern that Rumi's growth might outpace demand and cause a similar price drop? - What makes Rumi different than current companies run by locals such as the Afghan Saffron Company?[3] [0]: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/1458504/Afghan-farmers-turn-to-saffron-as-replacement-for-their-opium-crops.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/1... [1]: https://publicintelligence.net/unodc-afghan-opium-survey-2015/ https://publicintelligence.net/unodc-afghan-opium-survey-201... [2]: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-13848820 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-13848820 [3]: http://www.afghansaffron.com/ http://www.afghansaffron.com/