5 ms·

Facebook rolls out code to nullify Adblock Plus’ workaround

18 points by bko 10y ago

SixSigma 10y ago
Just use F.B. Purity, it is far superior http://www.fbpurity.com/ http://www.fbpurity.com/
- corobo 10y ago
  That site looks like it will try to steal something. Dodgy as hell scam site feel to it.
mtgx 10y ago
Facebook's plans to circumvent adblockers is illegal (in EU): https://www.privacy-news.net/news_article/57ab2d7184f6fd5f5ad2ddcd https://www.privacy-news.net/news_article/57ab2d7184f6fd5f5a... http://news.softpedia.com/news/blocking-ad-blockers-may-be-illegal-in-the-eu-thanks-to-the-cookie-law-503359.shtml http://news.softpedia.com/news/blocking-ad-blockers-may-be-i...
- freditup 10y ago
  While I hate ads as much as anyone, and use an ad-blocker myself, surely there could be some measure of illegality in the other direction also? Or put another way, surely consumers don't have a legal right to access Facebook without ads? Edit: To anyone who downvoted this: you're perfectly welcome to disagree or even adamantly disagree with me - but it's much more productive to explain why you disagree than downvote. I'm genuinely curious to hear an argument that consumers should have a legal right to view FB without ads.
- treehau5 10y ago
  It amazes me how far ahead the EU is in terms of tech legislation. Even as a "white" upper-middle class citizen in the US, I would be terrified if I got into any sort of legal trouble with authorities regarding technology.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- mdasen 10y ago
  It depends on how it is implemented. Those articles are about invading the privacy of the user by detecting what software is on the machine. However, you don't need to detect that someone has an ad-blocker to circumvent it. First, you can simply disguise your ads. You can disguise them for everyone. That doesn't require you to peek into what software is on the machine. You've simply made it difficult for an ad-blocker to detect the ads. Second, you don't have to peek into the software on a machine to determine that content isn't loading. Let's say that someone is blocking my ad server via /etc/hosts. I shouldn't be able to write code that tries to read a user's /etc/hosts, but I can load content via AJAX, see that the content isn't loading, and then take action based on that (maybe loading from a secondary source, maybe not displaying the page if not all content can be loaded). I'm not saying that Facebook is circumventing ad-blocking in this way, but you certainly can attempt ad-block circumvention without reading a user's local configuration. Facebook can install the ad-blockers like anyone else on their own machines and see how they can disguise the ads as content so that the ad-blockers don't detect them.
  - corobo 10y ago
    If you disguise it so that a constantly updating piece of software can't recognise it that means you've disguised it enough that the ad blocker creators can no longer tell it's an ad - Which is illegal in at least the UK, EU and US.
r721 10y ago
Current discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12274224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12274224
CM30 10y ago
So, how long till the adblockers get past Facebook's new work around and it all repeats again? This sort of cat and mouse game is going to accomplish nothing in the long run.
- fma 10y ago
  Keeps some developers employed, though :)
- Touche 10y ago
  The sidebar content should be blockable, but the inline content... they can make that indistinguishable from user content, can't they?
  - detaro 10y ago
    Which will get them in trouble with FTC and local equivalents for not making it clear what's an ad/"sponsored content".
    - amyjess 10y ago
      FTC, actually [0]. I have to wonder if Facebook's anti-adblocking games are going to, at some point, get the FTC to stomp them flat. [0] https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/ftcs-endorsement-guides-what-people-are-asking https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/ftc...
      - detaro 10y ago
        fixed, thanks. to many TLAs...
    - Touche 10y ago
      Wasn't aware of these requirements, thanks!
  - CM30 10y ago
    Depends. I suspect you could somehow try and parse the content to determine whether it's likely to be an ad, and then block it if so. Yeah that'd get a lot of false negatives, but there has been work into calculating the percentage that a piece of text is an advertisement or fake. Something like Fakespot for ads could be the next adblock integration. Then, the content could be literally identical on a mark up level but still be blocked by the program. At which point, it's another cat and mouse game. How much do you try and 'hide' that something's an ad before the adblocker starts blocking real content? Of course, it's questionable whether trying to hide an ad too much is even 100% legal. Remember, the Advertising Standards Authority and others like them require sponsored posts and content to be clearly marked as ads. So then Facebook ends up in an awkward situation. Do we leave the legally allowed disclaimer (which provides a great ad blocking hook), or remove it and potentially get sued?
seibelj 10y ago
FB shouldn't even bother, it's their company vs millions of extremely motivated people who hate their ads. My bet is on the adblockers
atom_enger 10y ago
And so the cat and mouse game begins. Users of Facebook are using the service free of charge(unless you're advertising or paying for something). I think if fb can detect that a user is a paying customer they should disable ads but for the majority of users this isn't the case. Couldn't one just add fb ad server dns entries to their host file as 127.0.0.1? What could facebook do in that case besides bring up ad servers on new domains? Could we set up an ad blocking DNS service? (Again..another game of cat and mouse.) In either case, you are playing a losing game on a ball court owned by Facebook. If you don't like the ads, don't use the service?
- detaro 10y ago
  We'll see about the losing game... If the ads look different from "real" content they can be blocked. If they don't FTC and other local authorities go after them for not marking ads clearly.
- mrgoldenbrown 10y ago
  From the article: "On Tuesday, Facebook announced it had blended the HTML of its ads on the web into its content so they’d still appear to users with ad blocking software." It is not valid to assume ads will come from one host and content from another.
- Eric_WVGG 10y ago
  I was just wondering about that — does this only affect ads in Facebook, or does it affect those embeds strewn everywhere? I couldn't care less about what they do within their own garbage heap, but if this enables to their junk across the rest of the web, it's a problem.
laurent123456 10y ago
Facebook response is incredibly stupid: "We’re disappointed that ad blocking companies are punishing people on Facebook as these new attempts don’t just block ads but also posts from friends and Pages. This isn’t a good experience for people and we plan to address the issue.". Ad-blocker can be easily uninstalled so how can they "punish" anyone. Facebook should just silently block ad-blockers and not act as if they are working in their user's interest.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
RRRA 10y ago
Quick Batman, to the rendering engine!

18 points by bko 10y ago

SixSigma 10y ago

Just use F.B. Purity, it is far superior http://www.fbpurity.com/ http://www.fbpurity.com/

corobo 10y ago
That site looks like it will try to steal something. Dodgy as hell scam site feel to it.

mtgx 10y ago

Facebook's plans to circumvent adblockers is illegal (in EU): https://www.privacy-news.net/news_article/57ab2d7184f6fd5f5ad2ddcd https://www.privacy-news.net/news_article/57ab2d7184f6fd5f5a... http://news.softpedia.com/news/blocking-ad-blockers-may-be-illegal-in-the-eu-thanks-to-the-cookie-law-503359.shtml http://news.softpedia.com/news/blocking-ad-blockers-may-be-i...

freditup 10y ago
While I hate ads as much as anyone, and use an ad-blocker myself, surely there could be some measure of illegality in the other direction also? Or put another way, surely consumers don't have a legal right to access Facebook without ads? Edit: To anyone who downvoted this: you're perfectly welcome to disagree or even adamantly disagree with me - but it's much more productive to explain why you disagree than downvote. I'm genuinely curious to hear an argument that consumers should have a legal right to view FB without ads.
treehau5 10y ago
It amazes me how far ahead the EU is in terms of tech legislation. Even as a "white" upper-middle class citizen in the US, I would be terrified if I got into any sort of legal trouble with authorities regarding technology.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
mdasen 10y ago
It depends on how it is implemented. Those articles are about invading the privacy of the user by detecting what software is on the machine. However, you don't need to detect that someone has an ad-blocker to circumvent it. First, you can simply disguise your ads. You can disguise them for everyone. That doesn't require you to peek into what software is on the machine. You've simply made it difficult for an ad-blocker to detect the ads. Second, you don't have to peek into the software on a machine to determine that content isn't loading. Let's say that someone is blocking my ad server via /etc/hosts. I shouldn't be able to write code that tries to read a user's /etc/hosts, but I can load content via AJAX, see that the content isn't loading, and then take action based on that (maybe loading from a secondary source, maybe not displaying the page if not all content can be loaded). I'm not saying that Facebook is circumventing ad-blocking in this way, but you certainly can attempt ad-block circumvention without reading a user's local configuration. Facebook can install the ad-blockers like anyone else on their own machines and see how they can disguise the ads as content so that the ad-blockers don't detect them.
- corobo 10y ago
  If you disguise it so that a constantly updating piece of software can't recognise it that means you've disguised it enough that the ad blocker creators can no longer tell it's an ad - Which is illegal in at least the UK, EU and US.

r721 10y ago

Current discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12274224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12274224

CM30 10y ago

So, how long till the adblockers get past Facebook's new work around and it all repeats again? This sort of cat and mouse game is going to accomplish nothing in the long run.

fma 10y ago
Keeps some developers employed, though :)
Touche 10y ago
The sidebar content should be blockable, but the inline content... they can make that indistinguishable from user content, can't they?
- detaro 10y ago
  Which will get them in trouble with FTC and local equivalents for not making it clear what's an ad/"sponsored content".
  - amyjess 10y ago
    FTC, actually [0]. I have to wonder if Facebook's anti-adblocking games are going to, at some point, get the FTC to stomp them flat. [0] https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/ftcs-endorsement-guides-what-people-are-asking https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/ftc...
    - detaro 10y ago
      fixed, thanks. to many TLAs...
  - Touche 10y ago
    Wasn't aware of these requirements, thanks!
- CM30 10y ago
  Depends. I suspect you could somehow try and parse the content to determine whether it's likely to be an ad, and then block it if so. Yeah that'd get a lot of false negatives, but there has been work into calculating the percentage that a piece of text is an advertisement or fake. Something like Fakespot for ads could be the next adblock integration. Then, the content could be literally identical on a mark up level but still be blocked by the program. At which point, it's another cat and mouse game. How much do you try and 'hide' that something's an ad before the adblocker starts blocking real content? Of course, it's questionable whether trying to hide an ad too much is even 100% legal. Remember, the Advertising Standards Authority and others like them require sponsored posts and content to be clearly marked as ads. So then Facebook ends up in an awkward situation. Do we leave the legally allowed disclaimer (which provides a great ad blocking hook), or remove it and potentially get sued?

seibelj 10y ago

FB shouldn't even bother, it's their company vs millions of extremely motivated people who hate their ads. My bet is on the adblockers

atom_enger 10y ago

And so the cat and mouse game begins. Users of Facebook are using the service free of charge(unless you're advertising or paying for something). I think if fb can detect that a user is a paying customer they should disable ads but for the majority of users this isn't the case. Couldn't one just add fb ad server dns entries to their host file as 127.0.0.1? What could facebook do in that case besides bring up ad servers on new domains? Could we set up an ad blocking DNS service? (Again..another game of cat and mouse.) In either case, you are playing a losing game on a ball court owned by Facebook. If you don't like the ads, don't use the service?

detaro 10y ago
We'll see about the losing game... If the ads look different from "real" content they can be blocked. If they don't FTC and other local authorities go after them for not marking ads clearly.
mrgoldenbrown 10y ago
From the article: "On Tuesday, Facebook announced it had blended the HTML of its ads on the web into its content so they’d still appear to users with ad blocking software." It is not valid to assume ads will come from one host and content from another.
Eric_WVGG 10y ago
I was just wondering about that — does this only affect ads in Facebook, or does it affect those embeds strewn everywhere? I couldn't care less about what they do within their own garbage heap, but if this enables to their junk across the rest of the web, it's a problem.

laurent123456 10y ago

Facebook response is incredibly stupid: "We’re disappointed that ad blocking companies are punishing people on Facebook as these new attempts don’t just block ads but also posts from friends and Pages. This isn’t a good experience for people and we plan to address the issue.". Ad-blocker can be easily uninstalled so how can they "punish" anyone. Facebook should just silently block ad-blockers and not act as if they are working in their user's interest.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

RRRA 10y ago

Quick Batman, to the rendering engine!