3 ms·

Yeh good compromise. The ideal solution would be for their API to not report a precise location if it doesn't know one. I guess they have no simple method of st

by redcalx 10y ago

Yeh good compromise. The ideal solution would be for their API to not report a precise location if it doesn't know one. I guess they have no simple method of stating a region rather than a point, and if they did the consumer of the APIs would probably just use the centre of the region most of the time. I guess they could just not give lat/long when unknown, but still state country, state, county, etc. if they're known.

Pxtl 10y ago
Exactly. If your API returned wkt text for the perimeter of the area, somebody who stores a simple lat-long pair is going to take the centroid and store that.
alex_hitchins 10y ago
Completely agree with you. Just seems more sensible than the middle of a lake. Police will still turn up! I wonder if it would be feasible to set it to one of the small islands map makers include to identify copyright infringements. Or, have a known fake territory where any 'dead' values can to be parked, such as the above.
syshum 10y ago
That is not how location services work, you always at least 3 data points, Lat, Lon and Accuracy http://dev.maxmind.com/geoip/geoip2/web-services/#location http://dev.maxmind.com/geoip/geoip2/web-services/#location It is up to the Developer to do sanity checks on the Accuracy for their type of application. in some instances just knowing it came from the US or some other country is accurate enough. To claim they should simply not return any data if they do not have an accuracy level to your arbitrary standards would make the service useless IMO Max Mind is not the problem here, people taking the data and using it as if it is accurate to 1in is the problem. Geo-location data on IP address has NEVER EVER been that accurate, NEVER. The fact the law Enforcement, Consumers and others use this data as the sole data point then act on that data is the problem, not that Max Mind Returned a Lat Lon to the center of the US
- redcalx 10y ago
  > To claim they should simply not return any data if they do not have an accuracy level to your arbitrary standards would make the service useless Ideally they'd offer version of the service that gives a probability 'heat map', but in reality 99% of users would use a simplified version with an app configured threshold for what constitutes useful info for that app, and also how to convert a heat map to a single point (since that what most people seem to want) or a very localised region (e.g. within 100 meters or so). In reality the simplified version would be provided as a service with a default threshold, anything under the threshold would not report a position, but could still report a country ISO code and perhaps state, county as optional extras. These are workable compromises to the ideal of everyone consuming a heat map in a sensible way (IMO).
  - syshum 10y ago
    >Ideally they'd offer version of the service that gives a probability 'heat map' that is not "ideal" at all, one of the first uses of this data was for real time CC fraud Detection, giving a computer processing CC info a graphical "heat map" is less than useless. Most geolocation API data is consumed by computers that use it for many things, not presented to the user directly. >In reality the simplified version would be provided as a service with a default threshold, anything under the threshold would not report a position, but could still report a country ISO code and perhaps state, county as optional extras. It appears you believe this data is only for Human Consumption. If an API is designed to return LAT and LON and Accuracy, then that is what is should return, not an ISO country code. I get you believe no API should be designed this way, but I as a developer that consumes these services prefer it that way, makes it easier to write against I as a developer am asking for Max Mind to give me Lat Lon and Accuracy, not a ISO Country Code or Heatmap
    - redcalx 10y ago
      The heat map is the baseline data model; from that it's possible to derive simpler models for simpler use cases. However, providing access to the baseline model will likely be useful for some use cases. i.e. if you want something more nuanced than lat/long. > It appears you believe this data is only for Human Consumption. Most human's I've encountered don't refer to countries by their ISO code... most.

by redcalx 10y ago

Pxtl 10y ago

Exactly. If your API returned wkt text for the perimeter of the area, somebody who stores a simple lat-long pair is going to take the centroid and store that.

alex_hitchins 10y ago

Completely agree with you. Just seems more sensible than the middle of a lake. Police will still turn up! I wonder if it would be feasible to set it to one of the small islands map makers include to identify copyright infringements. Or, have a known fake territory where any 'dead' values can to be parked, such as the above.

syshum 10y ago

That is not how location services work, you always at least 3 data points, Lat, Lon and Accuracy http://dev.maxmind.com/geoip/geoip2/web-services/#location http://dev.maxmind.com/geoip/geoip2/web-services/#location It is up to the Developer to do sanity checks on the Accuracy for their type of application. in some instances just knowing it came from the US or some other country is accurate enough. To claim they should simply not return any data if they do not have an accuracy level to your arbitrary standards would make the service useless IMO Max Mind is not the problem here, people taking the data and using it as if it is accurate to 1in is the problem. Geo-location data on IP address has NEVER EVER been that accurate, NEVER. The fact the law Enforcement, Consumers and others use this data as the sole data point then act on that data is the problem, not that Max Mind Returned a Lat Lon to the center of the US

redcalx 10y ago
> To claim they should simply not return any data if they do not have an accuracy level to your arbitrary standards would make the service useless Ideally they'd offer version of the service that gives a probability 'heat map', but in reality 99% of users would use a simplified version with an app configured threshold for what constitutes useful info for that app, and also how to convert a heat map to a single point (since that what most people seem to want) or a very localised region (e.g. within 100 meters or so). In reality the simplified version would be provided as a service with a default threshold, anything under the threshold would not report a position, but could still report a country ISO code and perhaps state, county as optional extras. These are workable compromises to the ideal of everyone consuming a heat map in a sensible way (IMO).
- syshum 10y ago
  >Ideally they'd offer version of the service that gives a probability 'heat map' that is not "ideal" at all, one of the first uses of this data was for real time CC fraud Detection, giving a computer processing CC info a graphical "heat map" is less than useless. Most geolocation API data is consumed by computers that use it for many things, not presented to the user directly. >In reality the simplified version would be provided as a service with a default threshold, anything under the threshold would not report a position, but could still report a country ISO code and perhaps state, county as optional extras. It appears you believe this data is only for Human Consumption. If an API is designed to return LAT and LON and Accuracy, then that is what is should return, not an ISO country code. I get you believe no API should be designed this way, but I as a developer that consumes these services prefer it that way, makes it easier to write against I as a developer am asking for Max Mind to give me Lat Lon and Accuracy, not a ISO Country Code or Heatmap
  - redcalx 10y ago
    The heat map is the baseline data model; from that it's possible to derive simpler models for simpler use cases. However, providing access to the baseline model will likely be useful for some use cases. i.e. if you want something more nuanced than lat/long. > It appears you believe this data is only for Human Consumption. Most human's I've encountered don't refer to countries by their ISO code... most.