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...maybe start with an easier language set and then transfer the skills....even as a 10 year developer I found ruby weird/challenging to pick up and all the new

...maybe start with an easier language set and then transfer the skills....even as a 10 year developer I found ruby weird/challenging to pick up and all the new web development languages/paradigms. It's taken me a good month! I couldnt really imagine starting out with ruby tbh. If you learn java in depth - php will be easy, java script will make more sense. Having learnt one language in depth, picking up most other languages are easier, you'll be in a better position to understand how jquery works.

rimantas 10y ago
Omg, not java for sure. The important bits will be burried in the boilerplate code. How about starting with NO language at all. Learn what variables are, what assignment is, how do control structures work. And hey, you've just learned to programm. At least I learned this way. We had no access to computers so the lessons were more or less what I listed above. On paper. And when I did get access to the computer I already knew how to program. The only thing I needed was to find out which MSX-BASIC instructions are for the things I want. I. e. I had just to learn a syntax, not the concepts. Having mastered concepts is also very transferable, especially between the languages of the same family.
- ManlyBread 10y ago
  >Omg, not java for sure. The important bits will be burried in the boilerplate code. So what? It doesn't make any difference for a beginner, I'd say it actually helps beginners since it makes programming a easier to approach. >How about starting with NO language at all. I hated this kind of advice when I was new, I followed it and my hatred has not subsided at all. Just pick a language and learn this stuff as you go, it will make zero difference and will save you a ton of time.
  - mancerayder 10y ago
    I think it's the individual differences between deductive and inductive learning styles at play here. Inductive learners, like myself, prefer to see examples and derive general rules. Deductive learning style is more about learning the generality first and moving on to examples. Different strokes for different folks. I too learned like you, I first learned Perl by trial and error example and the wonderfully awesome Learning Perl. I learned Java by frustratingly going through it, but once I got it I got it. Learning object oriented Perl and Python feel trivial now, thanks to that experience. Python, btw, feels like it needs to be practiced instead of learned, since I already have the concepts and generalities down. The question of this thread is, how do we teach beginners the concepts in an interesting way. I realize how much of a genius Larry Wall and Randal Schwartz are when I see threads like this.
- LifeQuestioner 10y ago
  You can learn all those things you've just said, in Java, very little boiler plate. Java to me, is a mixture of all languages, or most languages have at least elements of java in them. Hence useful to start with, picking up others are easy.

rimantas 10y ago

Omg, not java for sure. The important bits will be burried in the boilerplate code. How about starting with NO language at all. Learn what variables are, what assignment is, how do control structures work. And hey, you've just learned to programm. At least I learned this way. We had no access to computers so the lessons were more or less what I listed above. On paper. And when I did get access to the computer I already knew how to program. The only thing I needed was to find out which MSX-BASIC instructions are for the things I want. I. e. I had just to learn a syntax, not the concepts. Having mastered concepts is also very transferable, especially between the languages of the same family.

ManlyBread 10y ago
>Omg, not java for sure. The important bits will be burried in the boilerplate code. So what? It doesn't make any difference for a beginner, I'd say it actually helps beginners since it makes programming a easier to approach. >How about starting with NO language at all. I hated this kind of advice when I was new, I followed it and my hatred has not subsided at all. Just pick a language and learn this stuff as you go, it will make zero difference and will save you a ton of time.
- mancerayder 10y ago
  I think it's the individual differences between deductive and inductive learning styles at play here. Inductive learners, like myself, prefer to see examples and derive general rules. Deductive learning style is more about learning the generality first and moving on to examples. Different strokes for different folks. I too learned like you, I first learned Perl by trial and error example and the wonderfully awesome Learning Perl. I learned Java by frustratingly going through it, but once I got it I got it. Learning object oriented Perl and Python feel trivial now, thanks to that experience. Python, btw, feels like it needs to be practiced instead of learned, since I already have the concepts and generalities down. The question of this thread is, how do we teach beginners the concepts in an interesting way. I realize how much of a genius Larry Wall and Randal Schwartz are when I see threads like this.
LifeQuestioner 10y ago
You can learn all those things you've just said, in Java, very little boiler plate. Java to me, is a mixture of all languages, or most languages have at least elements of java in them. Hence useful to start with, picking up others are easy.