4 ms·

No chance of success? They are by no means perfect, but millions of people in the US alone benefit from our decaying hulks of existing systems. Sure, an ideal s

by pgodzin 10y ago

No chance of success? They are by no means perfect, but millions of people in the US alone benefit from our decaying hulks of existing systems. Sure, an ideal system can help millions more or help those millions more, but blowing them up and hoping something better comes out of it leaves millions that rely on them in the cold.

knieveltech 10y ago
Go look at a graph of income inequality over the last 30 years. Reflect on the fact that 30 years ago Detroit was a bustling industrial hub. Contemplate the fact that we have more people in jail in this country than any other country in the world. Child poverty & homelessness are at near-historic levels and rising. Critical environmental regulations are being dismantled at the state and federal levels and we have politicians openly discussing further deregulation of industry. So when you say millions of people are benefitting you'll excuse me if I ask you to define what that means. Incidentally, why do you assume real political reform (or even revolution) requires blowing a bunch of people up?
- pgodzin 10y ago
  Never said blowing people up, I said blowing the systems up. You don't have to convince me that there are serious systemic issues in this country. However, existing systems have done a lot of good, and need consistent improvements, not a lazy call for revolution without considering who gets affected by it. We passed critical environmental regulations in the first place. Crime rates continue to decrease across the country across generations. Millions of those people in poverty or out of work benefit from the safety net, disabled people are protected, minorities are protected from segregation, public schools and colleges educate millions for free or close to it. All these systems can and should improve. But just throwing out "revolution" doesn't solve any of these problems.
  - knieveltech 10y ago
    The systems you're infatuated with have done at least as much harm as good, currently work mostly in favor of individuals who least need the help, and for at least the last 30 years have steadily grown more dysfunctional. Working within a system only works when the system works, and there's nothing lazier than calls to work within a system that's directly responsible for the overwhelming majority of society's ills. But by all means feel free to keep painting would-be revolutionaries as lazy, bomb-throwing nihilists.

by pgodzin 10y ago

knieveltech 10y ago

Go look at a graph of income inequality over the last 30 years. Reflect on the fact that 30 years ago Detroit was a bustling industrial hub. Contemplate the fact that we have more people in jail in this country than any other country in the world. Child poverty & homelessness are at near-historic levels and rising. Critical environmental regulations are being dismantled at the state and federal levels and we have politicians openly discussing further deregulation of industry. So when you say millions of people are benefitting you'll excuse me if I ask you to define what that means. Incidentally, why do you assume real political reform (or even revolution) requires blowing a bunch of people up?

pgodzin 10y ago
Never said blowing people up, I said blowing the systems up. You don't have to convince me that there are serious systemic issues in this country. However, existing systems have done a lot of good, and need consistent improvements, not a lazy call for revolution without considering who gets affected by it. We passed critical environmental regulations in the first place. Crime rates continue to decrease across the country across generations. Millions of those people in poverty or out of work benefit from the safety net, disabled people are protected, minorities are protected from segregation, public schools and colleges educate millions for free or close to it. All these systems can and should improve. But just throwing out "revolution" doesn't solve any of these problems.
- knieveltech 10y ago
  The systems you're infatuated with have done at least as much harm as good, currently work mostly in favor of individuals who least need the help, and for at least the last 30 years have steadily grown more dysfunctional. Working within a system only works when the system works, and there's nothing lazier than calls to work within a system that's directly responsible for the overwhelming majority of society's ills. But by all means feel free to keep painting would-be revolutionaries as lazy, bomb-throwing nihilists.