6 ms·

A lot of this simply isn't true, though. For instances, many games' source of fun comes not just from gameplay mechanics but the richness of its composition. Wh

A lot of this simply isn't true, though. For instances, many games' source of fun comes not just from gameplay mechanics but the richness of its composition. When you take away the design of assets or the particular sounds or music that a game is made up of, you have an entirely different game. Too many people in gamedev are fooled by this concept. If anyone could make Minecraft and make it just as fun, why don't other voxel-based games ever seem just as fun? What's fundamentally the difference between CS, CS:S, and CS:GO? Surely they're all the same game since the mechanics haven't changed dramatically.

TillE 10y ago
> why don't other voxel-based games ever seem just as fun But this is the opposite of your point. Other games resemble Minecraft superficially and maybe offer some crafting, but none have anything like Minecraft's deep mechanics.
- danbolt 10y ago
  Minecraft hits the right notes to by psychologically satisfying, too. The feedback the player receives for thier decisions makes the initial parts of the game exciting. You feel validated for expressing yourself, much like a strategy in Counter Strike or picking a team in Pokémon.
  - andrewmcwatters 10y ago
    Yes, but what are those notes? That's my point. You can't prototype a voxel game and expect it to basically be Minecraft.
    - jeremiep 10y ago
      How on earth are you going to get a Minecraft if you prototype voxels? If you want to make a Minecraft then prototype that instead a single aspect of its visuals.
- andrewmcwatters 10y ago
  It's the opposite of my point because I'm asking in point of argument why someone would be true. "If X is true and Y is X, why is Y false."
  - Phil987 10y ago
    The problem with your point here is that Y isn't X.
nostromo 10y ago
You've missed the word "prototype". The point isn't to have a perfect game at the end of the period, it's to have something to validate further time investment. Take a look at the game Braid from prototype/concept to finished product. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Braid-art-1.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Braid-art-1.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Braid-art-2.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Braid-art-2.jpg This article is about how to get to something like the first image up and running. If it's fun, then work on making it look like the second image.
- andrewmcwatters 10y ago
  And you've missed my point entirely. You can have a game that simply _isn't fun, until the point of it actually being polished._
  - tdb7893 10y ago
    Can you give an example? (I don't mean to be snarky but I'm actually curious)
    - babuskov 10y ago
      The Stanley Parable? I mean, without the script and voice acting, it would seem pretty dull.
      - falsedan 10y ago
        Wouldn't you prototype the script? Just having a stage direction [SOMETHING WEIRD HAPPENS] would work in lieu of transforming a 3D environment. I bet you could protoype The Stanly Parable in a week in Twine/Z-code.
      - dietrichepp 10y ago
        That game went through so many revisions and prototypes. I remember playing an early version which was just a HL2 mod, barely resembling the current incarnation.
_polymer_ 10y ago
Good assets can't polish turd. A solid core, however, can benefit from assets. They mention this point in the article. A better counter argument would be a game which was completely abstract, hence not fun, being made fun with content. So in counterstrike, if you were abstract blobs, the goal might be confusing, and not fun. But your not, you either want to blow up, or save, a building (assets assist communication.)
- dleslie 10y ago
  Good assets sold turds at the beginning of most previous console cycles. This is likely a thing of the past, in this new era of vastly diminishing visual returns for dollars spent. Hitting that top-tier of fidelity that previously was able to ship games on screenshots alone is now so hideously expensive that few publishers are willing to risk it.
- andrewmcwatters 10y ago
  If you remove all of the sounds from Minecraft, all of the textures, all of the composite models and replace them with wireframe hitboxes, I doubt you'd have something as fun as the hit title. Prototypes are not good indicators that something could be fun.
  - brazzledazzle 10y ago
    I think at some point you have to use your imagination and intuition to fill in the gaps. This is something you have to do at many stages of the process anyway right? A prototype let's you confirm that your basic ideas are sound and you can focus on imagining the other aspects that bring it all together.
  - jeremiep 10y ago
    That's completely false and grossly overlooks what makes games fun in the first place. Prototypes are your absolute best indicators to determine if a project is worth investing into to reach completion or not. Because you find your fun factor at the prototype level. You'll get at most better visuals, sounds and more balance in the game with polish. If your mechanics aren't fun to begin with, polishing them will do absolutely no good.

TillE 10y ago

> why don't other voxel-based games ever seem just as fun But this is the opposite of your point. Other games resemble Minecraft superficially and maybe offer some crafting, but none have anything like Minecraft's deep mechanics.

danbolt 10y ago
Minecraft hits the right notes to by psychologically satisfying, too. The feedback the player receives for thier decisions makes the initial parts of the game exciting. You feel validated for expressing yourself, much like a strategy in Counter Strike or picking a team in Pokémon.
- andrewmcwatters 10y ago
  Yes, but what are those notes? That's my point. You can't prototype a voxel game and expect it to basically be Minecraft.
  - jeremiep 10y ago
    How on earth are you going to get a Minecraft if you prototype voxels? If you want to make a Minecraft then prototype that instead a single aspect of its visuals.
andrewmcwatters 10y ago
It's the opposite of my point because I'm asking in point of argument why someone would be true. "If X is true and Y is X, why is Y false."
- Phil987 10y ago
  The problem with your point here is that Y isn't X.

nostromo 10y ago

You've missed the word "prototype". The point isn't to have a perfect game at the end of the period, it's to have something to validate further time investment. Take a look at the game Braid from prototype/concept to finished product. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Braid-art-1.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Braid-art-1.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Braid-art-2.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Braid-art-2.jpg This article is about how to get to something like the first image up and running. If it's fun, then work on making it look like the second image.

andrewmcwatters 10y ago
And you've missed my point entirely. You can have a game that simply _isn't fun, until the point of it actually being polished._
- tdb7893 10y ago
  Can you give an example? (I don't mean to be snarky but I'm actually curious)
  - babuskov 10y ago
    The Stanley Parable? I mean, without the script and voice acting, it would seem pretty dull.
    - falsedan 10y ago
      Wouldn't you prototype the script? Just having a stage direction [SOMETHING WEIRD HAPPENS] would work in lieu of transforming a 3D environment. I bet you could protoype The Stanly Parable in a week in Twine/Z-code.
    - dietrichepp 10y ago
      That game went through so many revisions and prototypes. I remember playing an early version which was just a HL2 mod, barely resembling the current incarnation.

_polymer_ 10y ago

Good assets can't polish turd. A solid core, however, can benefit from assets. They mention this point in the article. A better counter argument would be a game which was completely abstract, hence not fun, being made fun with content. So in counterstrike, if you were abstract blobs, the goal might be confusing, and not fun. But your not, you either want to blow up, or save, a building (assets assist communication.)

dleslie 10y ago
Good assets sold turds at the beginning of most previous console cycles. This is likely a thing of the past, in this new era of vastly diminishing visual returns for dollars spent. Hitting that top-tier of fidelity that previously was able to ship games on screenshots alone is now so hideously expensive that few publishers are willing to risk it.
andrewmcwatters 10y ago
If you remove all of the sounds from Minecraft, all of the textures, all of the composite models and replace them with wireframe hitboxes, I doubt you'd have something as fun as the hit title. Prototypes are not good indicators that something could be fun.
- brazzledazzle 10y ago
  I think at some point you have to use your imagination and intuition to fill in the gaps. This is something you have to do at many stages of the process anyway right? A prototype let's you confirm that your basic ideas are sound and you can focus on imagining the other aspects that bring it all together.
- jeremiep 10y ago
  That's completely false and grossly overlooks what makes games fun in the first place. Prototypes are your absolute best indicators to determine if a project is worth investing into to reach completion or not. Because you find your fun factor at the prototype level. You'll get at most better visuals, sounds and more balance in the game with polish. If your mechanics aren't fun to begin with, polishing them will do absolutely no good.