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"It astounds me how much people forget in such a short time." I have not 'forgotten' anything. I watched every moment of the Libya episode. I suggest that it

"It astounds me how much people forget in such a short time." I have not 'forgotten' anything. I watched every moment of the Libya episode. I suggest that it is your posture which is 'forgetting'. A) Libya and Gaddafis totalitarianism, his child rape, corruption, cronyism - and admitted direct involvement in terrorism (Lockerbie bombing) - and then his attempts to mass murder dissenter ARE NOT THE FAULT OF THE WEST. 'The West' was left with very little choice but to at least stop the advancing genocidal army. By not participating, 'The West' is de-facto 'picking a side'. So there's no way out of it. 'Power' does not work in a vacum, we can't just 'stay out of it' for the most part. The failure of Libya is 99.9% the fault of Gaddafi, and the various Libyan factions. There's no reason that they can't come to terms and make civilization like everyone else on planet earth. Just because 'The West' can't magically waive it's wand and create democracy, does not mean that it's 'The Wests' fault that democracy does not exist there. Moreover - if 'The West' did not provide a stabilizing framework for the last 100 years - Libya would be in the state that it is now - and possibly much worse. What "astounds me" is how blithely hypocritical are in blaming 'The West' for the mass murdering, totalitarian actions of others. Have a quick visit to Libya and see for yourself. Myself - I was in Tunisia a few years ago and tried to sneak across the border. Fortunately, I failed :)

jessaustin 10y ago
Good grief, don't get your neocon underoos in a twist. There was no "advancing genocidal army". That was a convenient lie told by Qaddafi's soi-disant political rivals in Switzerland and retweeted by every lazy-ass media organization in USA. [0] He was raping children? Gosh that's terrible... when they do it in Saudi, UAE, Thailand, Brunei, etc. Scramble the fighter jets! He was corrupt and cronyist? Umm... never mind on those fighter jets, we'll find some other solution for Washington DC. You're the only one suggesting that the West should "create democracy" anywhere. Libya ain't Lichtenstein. Besides everyone knows that the democracy goalpost gets moved whenever it's convenient, like it did for Mosaddegh. Qaddafi was a violent corrupt warlord, but he wasn't the first in Africa, nor even the only, nor certainly the worst. More Libyans died in Reagan's post-Lockerbie bombing back in the 1980s than passengers died in the bombing itself, and Qaddafi had been fairly tolerable for about a decade before the French philosopher you follow got a hard-on for him. One can't bomb the fuck out of a place, assassinate its every leader, supply arms to the uneducated violent rabble that show up to replace them [1], and then reasonably blame the mess on the assassinated leaders. Logic doesn't work like that. We could pick out any number of nations in Europe, Asia, or the Americas that would look like Libya does today, five years after violently removing all civil authority and encouraging violent terrorists to move in. That's even considering the "stabilizing framework for the last 100 years". What a joke; next you'll credit Rome's defeat of Carthage. If you'd like to redpill, consider the fact that USA military-industrial complex makes more money when USA is bogged down in multiple never-ending wars. Consider also the fact that USA news media is basically controlled by the MIC, and has been since the sinking of the Maine. Stop believing the bullshit, and the real world will stop upsetting you so much. [0] https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/libya/obamas-libya-debacle https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/libya/obamas-libya-d... [1] http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/03/22/libya-and-the-myth-of-humanitarian-intervention/ http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/03/22/libya-and-the-myth-of-hu...

jessaustin 10y ago

Good grief, don't get your neocon underoos in a twist. There was no "advancing genocidal army". That was a convenient lie told by Qaddafi's soi-disant political rivals in Switzerland and retweeted by every lazy-ass media organization in USA. [0] He was raping children? Gosh that's terrible... when they do it in Saudi, UAE, Thailand, Brunei, etc. Scramble the fighter jets! He was corrupt and cronyist? Umm... never mind on those fighter jets, we'll find some other solution for Washington DC. You're the only one suggesting that the West should "create democracy" anywhere. Libya ain't Lichtenstein. Besides everyone knows that the democracy goalpost gets moved whenever it's convenient, like it did for Mosaddegh. Qaddafi was a violent corrupt warlord, but he wasn't the first in Africa, nor even the only, nor certainly the worst. More Libyans died in Reagan's post-Lockerbie bombing back in the 1980s than passengers died in the bombing itself, and Qaddafi had been fairly tolerable for about a decade before the French philosopher you follow got a hard-on for him. One can't bomb the fuck out of a place, assassinate its every leader, supply arms to the uneducated violent rabble that show up to replace them [1], and then reasonably blame the mess on the assassinated leaders. Logic doesn't work like that. We could pick out any number of nations in Europe, Asia, or the Americas that would look like Libya does today, five years after violently removing all civil authority and encouraging violent terrorists to move in. That's even considering the "stabilizing framework for the last 100 years". What a joke; next you'll credit Rome's defeat of Carthage. If you'd like to redpill, consider the fact that USA military-industrial complex makes more money when USA is bogged down in multiple never-ending wars. Consider also the fact that USA news media is basically controlled by the MIC, and has been since the sinking of the Maine. Stop believing the bullshit, and the real world will stop upsetting you so much. [0] https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/libya/obamas-libya-debacle https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/libya/obamas-libya-d... [1] http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/03/22/libya-and-the-myth-of-humanitarian-intervention/ http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/03/22/libya-and-the-myth-of-hu...