4 ms·

Say good-bye to Linux on the PS3

28 points by pavel 17y ago

sophacles 17y ago
Well this is just absurd. I bought my PS3 in a large part to support this open(ish) hardware notion amongst console makers. What a lot of good that did.
- nathanb 17y ago
  Unfortunately, 'Sony' and 'open' are rarely related... I tried YDL, Ubuntu, and OpenSUSE on my PS3, and with the relatively small amount of memory, the slow disk, and the locked-down graphics subsystem I found that I couldn't really do many useful things with it. If I were involved in HPC I'm sure I could have found something, but as-is OtherOS has always been more of a gimmick than a tool in my eyes. I imagine those interested in using their PS3s for scientific computing or Linux hacking won't mind not updating the firmware, while those interested primarily in gaming or media playing won't care that they can't dual-boot anymore. It's frustrating that Sony are doing this, but I don't think that practically speaking this changes a whole lot.
- rbanffy 17y ago
  So... What will you do? Buy an Xbox 360? ;-) It's not like you have a whole lot of choice... And yes, it sucks. I would like an inexpensive non-x86 desktop. A Cell-based box would be interesting, as would be a SPARC or a many-core ARM thingie. I find this x86-only world boring.
  - sophacles 17y ago
    Nah, ill just buy a media center pc and put boxee or something on it. I don't play a lot of games, in fact, one of the motivators for buying the PS3 was to see if I would be interested in more gaming on newer systems. Turns out I'm still not much of a gamer.
  - wmf 17y ago
    I wonder if/when someone will hack the Boxee Box into a full computer; it's got decent specs and the right ports.
kevingadd 17y ago
This appears to be in response to the announcements of PS3 hypervisor exploits that rely on the use of OtherOS (specifically, Linux), since in the past Sony has insisted that they had no plans to ever deprecate Linux support, let alone force it in this manner: http://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/cbe-oss-dev/2009-August/006965.html http://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/cbe-oss-dev/2009-August/00... Allowing people to opt out of the firmware update isn't as nice as it sounds, since you can't have a damaged PS3 serviced without getting it updated to the latest firmware. A few PS3 devs I follow on twitter have already discussed buying extra 'fat' PS3s to use as replacements in case their current ones die. Kind of a short-sighted decision, since a lot of people who do development on PS3 software use this feature - getting a real devkit for use at home isn't particularly easy, and PS3 linux lets you do a lot of Cell hacking on inexpensive hardware.
- tibbon 17y ago
  What does one have to do to get a dev kit actually?
  - wmf 17y ago
    Pitch your game concept to Sony; if they approve it then you'll be allowed to buy a ~$10K devkit. (Or if you're a wildly successful indie game developer, they'll give you a devkit for free.)
    - sgoraya 17y ago
      Or you can use a modchip (not so easy with the PS3 though). At the last studio I worked at, rather than purchasing new dev kits, I/we figured that using modded PS2's for the QA team was a lot more cost effective. My contact at SONY did not think it was such a bad idea either :)
    - tibbon 17y ago
      Is each Devkit ~10K, or is that for a site license? It seems that QA costs would be astronomical if they were 10K per system.
tibbon 17y ago
One of my roommates constantly uses Linux on the PS3 as his justification for why the PS3 is better than the Xbox (oddly he just says this, and hasn't actually loaded Linux on it from what I can tell). Sony seems to be notorious for what they allow as features on their system. SACD optical out playing, PS2 support and Linux support seem to flip back and forth between hardware and software versions.
- nkassis 17y ago
  that's because, there no real difference (experience wise) and in the end it's decided on stupid things like this. There isn't much competition in the console space so they all pretty much do the same thing. The only real advantage sony has is the nice bluray player but with the price of bluray players right now, it's a very moot point now. I like the talk about the (now defunct :() Linux feature just cause it lets me call my xbox owning friends Microsoft groupies ;p
jmount 17y ago
I thought the "Linux on PS3" was just a scam Sony pursued to avoid a video game tax treatment in the EU. If I remember right they got sued about that (that the EU wanted to tax the PS3 as a video game) but I forget what came of that.
- bitwize 17y ago
  That was Yabasic on the PS2. And they didn't get away with it.
jorgecastillo 17y ago
Sony is just buying time. Sooner or later someone is going to hack the PS3 and users will be able to install whatever they want.
- sp332 17y ago
  One of the Wii hackers who gave a presentation at the 25th Chaos Communication Congress in Berlin said that the only reason the PS3 hadn't been completely hacked yet is that you could already do most of what the hackers and homebrewers wanted, without modchips or removing the hypervisor. http://www.flickr.com/photos/55502932@N00/4314288066/sizes/o/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/55502932@N00/4314288066/sizes/o... Now that you can't boot other OS's, the PS3 hacks are only going to get more intense.
  - TeHCrAzY 17y ago
    Interesting. My assumption was mostly that piracy motivated the hacks, and running "homebrew" was a minor aside. This was mostly the case with the PSP custom firmware scene, at the very least.
    - sp332 17y ago
      Homebrewers and pirates are surprisingly distinct groups. A couple small examples: http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/Team_Twiizers#Philosophy http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/Team_Twiizers#Philosophy and http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/WarezInstaller/information http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/WarezInstaller/information
sketerpot 17y ago
The really galling thing is how they spin this as a feature, using the most convoluted corporate doublespeak I've seen in a while. The phrase "Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining" comes to mind.

28 points by pavel 17y ago

Well this is just absurd. I bought my PS3 in a large part to support this open(ish) hardware notion amongst console makers. What a lot of good that did.

nathanb 17y ago
Unfortunately, 'Sony' and 'open' are rarely related... I tried YDL, Ubuntu, and OpenSUSE on my PS3, and with the relatively small amount of memory, the slow disk, and the locked-down graphics subsystem I found that I couldn't really do many useful things with it. If I were involved in HPC I'm sure I could have found something, but as-is OtherOS has always been more of a gimmick than a tool in my eyes. I imagine those interested in using their PS3s for scientific computing or Linux hacking won't mind not updating the firmware, while those interested primarily in gaming or media playing won't care that they can't dual-boot anymore. It's frustrating that Sony are doing this, but I don't think that practically speaking this changes a whole lot.
rbanffy 17y ago
So... What will you do? Buy an Xbox 360? ;-) It's not like you have a whole lot of choice... And yes, it sucks. I would like an inexpensive non-x86 desktop. A Cell-based box would be interesting, as would be a SPARC or a many-core ARM thingie. I find this x86-only world boring.
- sophacles 17y ago
  Nah, ill just buy a media center pc and put boxee or something on it. I don't play a lot of games, in fact, one of the motivators for buying the PS3 was to see if I would be interested in more gaming on newer systems. Turns out I'm still not much of a gamer.
- wmf 17y ago
  I wonder if/when someone will hack the Boxee Box into a full computer; it's got decent specs and the right ports.

kevingadd 17y ago

This appears to be in response to the announcements of PS3 hypervisor exploits that rely on the use of OtherOS (specifically, Linux), since in the past Sony has insisted that they had no plans to ever deprecate Linux support, let alone force it in this manner: http://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/cbe-oss-dev/2009-August/006965.html http://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/cbe-oss-dev/2009-August/00... Allowing people to opt out of the firmware update isn't as nice as it sounds, since you can't have a damaged PS3 serviced without getting it updated to the latest firmware. A few PS3 devs I follow on twitter have already discussed buying extra 'fat' PS3s to use as replacements in case their current ones die. Kind of a short-sighted decision, since a lot of people who do development on PS3 software use this feature - getting a real devkit for use at home isn't particularly easy, and PS3 linux lets you do a lot of Cell hacking on inexpensive hardware.

tibbon 17y ago
What does one have to do to get a dev kit actually?
- wmf 17y ago
  Pitch your game concept to Sony; if they approve it then you'll be allowed to buy a ~$10K devkit. (Or if you're a wildly successful indie game developer, they'll give you a devkit for free.)
  - sgoraya 17y ago
    Or you can use a modchip (not so easy with the PS3 though). At the last studio I worked at, rather than purchasing new dev kits, I/we figured that using modded PS2's for the QA team was a lot more cost effective. My contact at SONY did not think it was such a bad idea either :)
  - tibbon 17y ago
    Is each Devkit ~10K, or is that for a site license? It seems that QA costs would be astronomical if they were 10K per system.

tibbon 17y ago

One of my roommates constantly uses Linux on the PS3 as his justification for why the PS3 is better than the Xbox (oddly he just says this, and hasn't actually loaded Linux on it from what I can tell). Sony seems to be notorious for what they allow as features on their system. SACD optical out playing, PS2 support and Linux support seem to flip back and forth between hardware and software versions.

nkassis 17y ago
that's because, there no real difference (experience wise) and in the end it's decided on stupid things like this. There isn't much competition in the console space so they all pretty much do the same thing. The only real advantage sony has is the nice bluray player but with the price of bluray players right now, it's a very moot point now. I like the talk about the (now defunct :() Linux feature just cause it lets me call my xbox owning friends Microsoft groupies ;p

jmount 17y ago

I thought the "Linux on PS3" was just a scam Sony pursued to avoid a video game tax treatment in the EU. If I remember right they got sued about that (that the EU wanted to tax the PS3 as a video game) but I forget what came of that.

bitwize 17y ago
That was Yabasic on the PS2. And they didn't get away with it.

jorgecastillo 17y ago

Sony is just buying time. Sooner or later someone is going to hack the PS3 and users will be able to install whatever they want.

sp332 17y ago
One of the Wii hackers who gave a presentation at the 25th Chaos Communication Congress in Berlin said that the only reason the PS3 hadn't been completely hacked yet is that you could already do most of what the hackers and homebrewers wanted, without modchips or removing the hypervisor. http://www.flickr.com/photos/55502932@N00/4314288066/sizes/o/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/55502932@N00/4314288066/sizes/o... Now that you can't boot other OS's, the PS3 hacks are only going to get more intense.
- TeHCrAzY 17y ago
  Interesting. My assumption was mostly that piracy motivated the hacks, and running "homebrew" was a minor aside. This was mostly the case with the PSP custom firmware scene, at the very least.
  - sp332 17y ago
    Homebrewers and pirates are surprisingly distinct groups. A couple small examples: http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/Team_Twiizers#Philosophy http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/Team_Twiizers#Philosophy and http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/WarezInstaller/information http://www.wiibrew.org/wiki/WarezInstaller/information

sketerpot 17y ago

The really galling thing is how they spin this as a feature, using the most convoluted corporate doublespeak I've seen in a while. The phrase "Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining" comes to mind.