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I recommend to read Raphael Patai's classic "The Arab mind" to try to understand. Don't drink the NYT koolaid.
by mms1973 10y ago
I recommend to read Raphael Patai's classic "The Arab mind" to try to understand. Don't drink the NYT koolaid.
- koevet 10y agoI have checked the book out, and it seems to have attracted a fairly amount of criticism, since its publication. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arab_Mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arab_Mind I will nevertheless read it.
- fsloth 10y agoSome sources claim the book is racist and not backed by solid research. Any opinions on this? (looking for a good book on the topic).
- jessaustin 10y agoThis one [0] is fun. Choice quote: "The best use for this volume, if any, is as a doorstop." [0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/may/24/worlddispatch.usa https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/may/24/worlddispatch....
- TeMPOraL 10y ago> Some sources claim the book is racist Funny thing - given how easy it is to get an "racist" label these days, I'd treat this as a signal that the book may be touching on some controversial topics or reaching unpopular conclusions.
- fsloth 10y agoFunny, I get the exact opposite vibes. Given how crackpot racism has a strong historical background it's very hard not to treat it as a signal of being a produce of crackpot racism. "Race" does not explain anything - although, many people would love it to because that would make it easier to comprehend the world. There is very dark history of this in european pseudoscience. There is far more genetic variation in average within population groups of same 'race' as there are between 'races'. There are cultures with obviously harmful practices - take female circumsision for example - but to the way to respond to those is to make it clear it is not acceptable, and not to use it as an example of the barbarism of individuals belonging to the culture in question. There are wide variations in cultural sensibilities, and actual painpoints between interactions of populations. There are well known, and actually difficult problems to solve. Adding crackpot theories to the mix based on opinion and imagination does not really help the world to evolve.
- TeMPOraL 10y agoI"m not referring to racism per se, but to accusations of racism. It's way too easy to get a "racist" label nowadays.
- googletazer 10y agoThats my feeling as well. Everything that can be controversial and doesn't appeal to the mantas of MSM liberal media is labeled as an -ism.
- eli_gottlieb 10y agoI mean, it probably is, but that seems to come with the field. Even Said's Orientalism has later come under heavy attack for painting its so-called "East" with a single heavy-handed brushstroke and its "West" with not even that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism_(book)#Criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orientalism_(book)#Criticism Real life is far more complex than your average geopolitical wannabe-strategist gives the slightest credit for.
- nickik 10y agoOn what topic? The middle-east? If so, probably you want to read "The Modern Middle East: A History". See: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/books/middleeast#wiki_modern_history https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/wiki/books/middleeast... For some more resources
- fsloth 10y agoThanks! Looks exactly what I was looking for.
- bitchypat 10y agoAdam Curtis's Bitter Lake has some good stuff too. https://thoughtmaybe.com/bitter-lake/ https://thoughtmaybe.com/bitter-lake/
- jmus 10y agoI watched this a while back on the BBC and remember it being pretty interesting. It examines the relationships of the US, UK and Russia with the middle east through the lens of their respective involvements in Afghanistan.
- cholantesh 10y agoClassic? Not in any intellectually credible circle. It's just an overlong anti Arab screed.
- tim333 10y agoThe reviews on amazon.com seem quite positive, especially from people who have lived in Arab countries eg "I have lived in the Middle East, on and off, for four years, and no book explained the Arab mind as well as Raphael Patai's." It doesn't seem popular with the politically correct crowd.
- cholantesh 10y agoThat it anecdotally speaks to a few anonymous persons who engaged with a small subset of Arabs in particular parts of the ME is hardly impressive, but if you want to hold it up, so be it. My immediate family and much of our circle of friends (conservative South Asians) were settled there for decades. Some are still there. The descriptions Patai uses do not jibe with our experiences, at least not in the aggregate. It also doesn't jibe with some other reviewers who've lived in the ME. I wonder why you discount their experience. Also, if you want to regard 'racist' as a conversation ender, you should be just as wary of throwing around 'politically (in)correct'.
- tim333 10y agoMaybe so. I only glanced at the reviews, I haven't read the thing.
- hx87 10y agoAs a 1st generation Chinese-American who has seen more than his fair share of cooky, isolated, romantic and ill-informed Western expats living in East Asia, I'm not sure I'd trust their opinions on the societies they live in, especially if they did so only "on and off for four years".