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Am I wrong in thinking that the problems complained about here are precisely because it uses sensors and a camera and not lidar? (I did a bit of research, and

Am I wrong in thinking that the problems complained about here are precisely because it uses sensors and a camera and not lidar? (I did a bit of research, and reading around says "probably", but i trust HN's opinion a bit more :P)

krasin 10y ago
Lidar alone is not enough, as it relies on the certain reflective properties of objects around (and there's also solar light noise). But yes, they ought to add a lidar and more cameras so that there's 360 coverage with a good overlap, and a single failed sensor does not disable the ability to auto-drive safely.
- slowmovintarget 10y ago
  Thinking a further bit down-range there probably ought to be Smart Roads that cooperate with the vehicles to a) keep them apart, and b) keep the moving in the proper way.
  - kmonsen 10y ago
    They exists, they are called tracks and have trains running on them. Joking aside, there probably will not be special roads since the cars need to be safe in case the roads fail anyway. And I don't think anyone will be for these new roads that no cars can use so it is also a chicken and egg problem.
Animats 10y ago
The situational awareness of this thing is not good. The author points out that it didn't notice a rapidly approaching car prior to a lane change. The only side-looking sensors Tesla has are ultrasonics, which are too short range. The Tesla sensor suite is: - a bumper-level 2D radar, good for not rear-ending cars in front. Not good for obstacles at windshield height. Will detect a car. Might detect a bicycle. Won't detect most pedestrians. - a forward facing camera using MobileEye software. This 1) recognizes lane lines, 2) tries to range the car ahead by putting a rectangle around the recognized rear end, and 3) reads speed limit signs. It may be able to recognize pedestrians. (Unclear. See [1]) - some ultrasonic sensors which detect obstacles to the side and rear at short range. Mostly useful for parking. This just isn't enough. Tesla isn't profiling the road, and will drive off a cliff if the lines lead there, as the parent article points out. We had that figured out in the DARPA Grand Challenge a decade ago, where the vehicles didn't need road lines. Compare Google's system. [1] https://electrek.co/2016/06/26/tesla-autopilot-tests-pedestrians-auto-emergency-braking-video/ https://electrek.co/2016/06/26/tesla-autopilot-tests-pedestr...
- flukus 10y ago
  Could a human have detected the vehicle? Our only sensor is line of sight optical (with a few mirrors) and near misses when merging are very common.
  - pcl 10y ago
    From reading the article, it sounds like the human did detect the vehicle, and that's what prevented a collision.
    - flukus 10y ago
      Yeah but it wasn't clear on the exact circumstances. If it was accelerating from behind then it could have been occluded by another car. The human may have only seen it because they were free from concentrating on other things, etc.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

krasin 10y ago

Lidar alone is not enough, as it relies on the certain reflective properties of objects around (and there's also solar light noise). But yes, they ought to add a lidar and more cameras so that there's 360 coverage with a good overlap, and a single failed sensor does not disable the ability to auto-drive safely.

slowmovintarget 10y ago
Thinking a further bit down-range there probably ought to be Smart Roads that cooperate with the vehicles to a) keep them apart, and b) keep the moving in the proper way.
- kmonsen 10y ago
  They exists, they are called tracks and have trains running on them. Joking aside, there probably will not be special roads since the cars need to be safe in case the roads fail anyway. And I don't think anyone will be for these new roads that no cars can use so it is also a chicken and egg problem.

Animats 10y ago

The situational awareness of this thing is not good. The author points out that it didn't notice a rapidly approaching car prior to a lane change. The only side-looking sensors Tesla has are ultrasonics, which are too short range. The Tesla sensor suite is: - a bumper-level 2D radar, good for not rear-ending cars in front. Not good for obstacles at windshield height. Will detect a car. Might detect a bicycle. Won't detect most pedestrians. - a forward facing camera using MobileEye software. This 1) recognizes lane lines, 2) tries to range the car ahead by putting a rectangle around the recognized rear end, and 3) reads speed limit signs. It may be able to recognize pedestrians. (Unclear. See [1]) - some ultrasonic sensors which detect obstacles to the side and rear at short range. Mostly useful for parking. This just isn't enough. Tesla isn't profiling the road, and will drive off a cliff if the lines lead there, as the parent article points out. We had that figured out in the DARPA Grand Challenge a decade ago, where the vehicles didn't need road lines. Compare Google's system. [1] https://electrek.co/2016/06/26/tesla-autopilot-tests-pedestrians-auto-emergency-braking-video/ https://electrek.co/2016/06/26/tesla-autopilot-tests-pedestr...

flukus 10y ago
Could a human have detected the vehicle? Our only sensor is line of sight optical (with a few mirrors) and near misses when merging are very common.
- pcl 10y ago
  From reading the article, it sounds like the human did detect the vehicle, and that's what prevented a collision.
  - flukus 10y ago
    Yeah but it wasn't clear on the exact circumstances. If it was accelerating from behind then it could have been occluded by another car. The human may have only seen it because they were free from concentrating on other things, etc.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]