4 ms·

The semantic wankery is a real problem. What's fuzzy is you saying things like 'the properties of stars' as if those exist in any way other than our description

The semantic wankery is a real problem. What's fuzzy is you saying things like 'the properties of stars' as if those exist in any way other than our description of them. Sure, there may be a material reality. But a star does not "have mass", mass is only our (current) description of some unknowable ineffable thing. And it is very important to appreciate that there is no such thing as "mass" out there, mass only exists in our heads. Mass may be straining towards a point informed by reality, but it is NOT that reality. The reason it is important to remember that our ideas and descriptions are not reality and can never be is because doing so is required if we are ever to replace our ideas and descriptions with ones that serve us better.

nostrademons 10y ago
All of this is true but not particularly useful. Mass may be an abstract construct, but it's one that's proven pretty handy for a few centuries. It lets us send planes up into the air. It lets us send satellites into orbit, which lets us predict where we are at any given moment, which lets me figure out how to avoid the terrible traffic on routes 101 and 85. It lets us figure out how big an engine we need to power our vehicles, and how much to charge for shipping, and whether that laptop we want will be a pain to carry around. Yes, it's ultimately a fiction, and it probably won't suffice to get us to alpha centauri. I am far more likely to ship a package or drive a car than go on an interstellar voyage, though.
- astazangasta 10y ago
  On the contrary, I think it's extremely useful for two enormous reasons: 1) This recognition that our models are not the truth and can (should) be frequently questioned and rejected fundamentally underpins skeptical inquiry. Newton believed he was discovering fundamental Laws, the clockwork that runs the universe. Einstein proved this to be fallacious, and now we live uneasily with the knowledge that Einstein's descriptions are "false" as well. 2) Our models are not only responsible to "reality", they are also responsible to political, social, economic demands. Who, what, and how we observe are choices we make that shape the nature of our reality (that is, our view of "the real world", which is the only thing ever available to us - the real world is always inaccessible). It behooves us to be aware of this intrusion. Science is not a pristine garden undisturbed by anything other than "fact" - fact itself is polluted by its habitat, the human mind. The history of science is littered with horrors that resulted from the conviction that our current dogmas are true and that our current forms of knowledge the best.

nostrademons 10y ago

All of this is true but not particularly useful. Mass may be an abstract construct, but it's one that's proven pretty handy for a few centuries. It lets us send planes up into the air. It lets us send satellites into orbit, which lets us predict where we are at any given moment, which lets me figure out how to avoid the terrible traffic on routes 101 and 85. It lets us figure out how big an engine we need to power our vehicles, and how much to charge for shipping, and whether that laptop we want will be a pain to carry around. Yes, it's ultimately a fiction, and it probably won't suffice to get us to alpha centauri. I am far more likely to ship a package or drive a car than go on an interstellar voyage, though.

astazangasta 10y ago
On the contrary, I think it's extremely useful for two enormous reasons: 1) This recognition that our models are not the truth and can (should) be frequently questioned and rejected fundamentally underpins skeptical inquiry. Newton believed he was discovering fundamental Laws, the clockwork that runs the universe. Einstein proved this to be fallacious, and now we live uneasily with the knowledge that Einstein's descriptions are "false" as well. 2) Our models are not only responsible to "reality", they are also responsible to political, social, economic demands. Who, what, and how we observe are choices we make that shape the nature of our reality (that is, our view of "the real world", which is the only thing ever available to us - the real world is always inaccessible). It behooves us to be aware of this intrusion. Science is not a pristine garden undisturbed by anything other than "fact" - fact itself is polluted by its habitat, the human mind. The history of science is littered with horrors that resulted from the conviction that our current dogmas are true and that our current forms of knowledge the best.