8 ms·

Employee #1: Tumblr

109 points by craigcannon 10y ago

PhrosTT 10y ago
I hope that guy continued working because he wanted to, not because he had to.
romanhn 10y ago
Nobody at Tumblr was gonna turn to me and be like, “Dude, you’re working too many hours, chill, take time, sleep.” No one ever turned to me and said that, ever. That's just sad. I wish more people did say this - everyone loses when a colleague burns out.
- skybrian 10y ago
  Well that's the thing about salaried jobs: if they're not watching you fairly closely, how would they know how many hours you're working?
  - romanhn 10y ago
    It's not an exact science, but there are plenty of artifacts one would tend to leave around when working extra hours - late night emails, chat messages at odd hours, code commits or comments, whatever. Don't let it become a pattern. Outside of being unhealthy for the individual involved, it can be quite detrimental for the team. Managers especially can set unhealthy expectations without any conscious intent on their part.
  - glenda 10y ago
    Companies shouldn't hire employees they don't trust. They may choose to watch out for bad behaviour (i.e. not answering emails when expected), however employees should never need to be watched at the level you're suggesting.
    - romanhn 10y ago
      I interpreted that comment as a question of how can we know that someone is working too much (and therefore should be concerned) if we don't know how much they're actually working.
      - glenda 10y ago
        Ah yes, that is a lot harder to detect. I think in that case minimum required vacations are a great way to make sure your employees take some time off.
    - megablast 10y ago
      Oh of course. Companies should only hire perfect people.
      - glenda 10y ago
        Of course not, but you should at least trust the people you hire!
  - rtpg 10y ago
    Isn't the point of being salaried is you're being results-based instead of hourly based? Granted, there's an implicit agreement to do "40 hours" (or whatever the norm is), but that they're paying you for what you produce, not for how many hours you're in the seat.
    - skybrian 10y ago
      Yes, the point is that if nobody is watching you, it's up to you to set your own limits on work hours. You can't expect someone else to do it.
- wott 10y ago
  Oh, there are managers who learned their managing lesson that they should show care for the employees and will tell them this very sentence. ... And at the same they remind you about the deadline twice a day, ask you for an estimate thrice a day, and tell you should speed up because you won't be allowed to miss the deadline. This is worse than just putting pressure on someone. This kind of contradictory orders, of double binds, drives you crazy. Not only are you now afraid of failing the deadline, but you are also afraid of failing the 'hours check', for you know pretty well that they are incompatible. It also shows that the first advice was just fake, they don't give a damn about it, they just read somewhere that a good manager should say that so they say that, but they have no intent to build up the conditions so that it can happen.
  - smcl 10y ago
    I have had this and it drives you insane. For some reason it caused me to start thinking of my holidays as yet another task I had to do, but didn't have time for - and instead of being a relaxing thing to look forward to became stressful "issue" I didn't want to handle
- _pmf_ 10y ago
  > That's just sad. I wish more people did say this - everyone loses when a colleague burns out. If some (single, without family) colleague does this, I usually assume he/she just likes his job very much (I worked a lot more, unpaid at home, when I did not have children, and enjoyed it). It's not always externally visible that this causes problems for the colleague, and it's a bit patronizing to assume that the guy/gal has a problem with it. Either you have a toxic environment, in which case everyone suffers the same, or you have a non-toxic environment where it's more or less up to you how much you work. If it's the latter, please don't put responsibility on your colleagues for your work load. If it's the former, due to the fact that it is an employer's market (despite what some shills try to tell you), you only have the option to leave.
  - rebeccaskinner 10y ago
    A couple of companies ago I was the lead developer working mostly with people who were early on in their careers, single, and wanting to put in a lot of time. Even then I always advised them that programming and solving problems is fun, but they should find side projects or something and not spend all that extra effort on work projects. Even if they start doing it because of passion it can ruin things at work because it gives the managers a very poor sense of scale and estimation (because it's hard enough to estimate when you don't have to think about how interesting a given developer will find a problem as part of calculating velocity), it sets expectations on them that they really don't want to have (people start to count on your long hours even if you suddenly have something else going on in your life) and finally fresh ideas and new perspectives are the lifeblood of a team, so having people doing their own thing outside of work and bringing in those things is way more valuable than getting that one project done a little early.
- PJDK 10y ago
  I run a smallish team (6 including me) at a startupish company (as in it's quite small with growth ambitions, but the nature of the industry means it's never going to be worth much more than $40m even in the best case. I say this sort of thing - not that often because people have taken it on board. As far as I'm concerned it's just best practice. Sustained crunch style working doesn't make you go any faster - bugs, burn out, turn over they'll all kill any short term gains you might get. If someone is being pressured into running a team into the ground, they have a professional duty to push back against that - it's in the best interests of all concerned. I also feel that it makes it much easier to ask people to work longer if some emergency does come up that can't wait (bug in production or something like that - we get this maybe 3-4 times a year and it generally means a couple of late days getting it sorted). I'm not sure why anyone thinks "this time the death march might work!"
kinkora 10y ago
slightly off topic - Marc mentions he flies from Geneva to Amsterdam on Monday and vice versa on Friday and Craig's reaction to that seem to be of amazement. I am not from the continent obviously so I looked up the flight times and saw the total flight time was.. only 1.5 hours! Is that not normal and considered too long in Europe? I ask because in Australia, that's roughly the same flight time from Sydney <-> Melbourne and a gazillion people take that route on a daily basis [1] plus it is considered a pretty short flight (try flying to Perth or Brisbane). At one point of my consulting career, I found myself flying to Sydney from Melbourne constantly every week for 6 months and at times, I just make it a day trip and take the first flight out in the wee hours in the morning and come back later in the evening. Mention it to anyone in Australia and no one will bat an eye! [1] As of 2015, it is noted as the 4th busiest route in the world - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_passenger_air_routes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_passenger_air_...
- ramenmeal 10y ago
  He's probably not shocked by the distance, but rather the lifestyle of living in two places, one for work and one for your family.
- abalone 10y ago
  That's about 3.5 metric tons of CO2 over six months.[1] They should at least bat an eye. [1] http://www.icao.int/ENVIRONMENTAL-PROTECTION/CARBONOFFSET/Pages/default.aspx http://www.icao.int/ENVIRONMENTAL-PROTECTION/CARBONOFFSET/Pa...
  - joneholland 10y ago
    The plane was going to fly regardless, he actually improved its load factor by flying on it.
    - wott 10y ago
      Once you've told this to each of the 250 guys who do the same, er...
dudeget 10y ago
I really like these, keep them coming!
sverige 10y ago
What a cool guy! He just took a shot in the dark and it worked out great! I shuddered a little when he said he loves doing support. I'm glad there are people like that. I really liked his attitude about compensation. Make as much as the last job so his wife doesn't complain. He's obviously driven by passion, not greed. I'll bet he's really pleasant to work with.
- kowdermeister 10y ago
  > What a cool guy! He just took a shot in the dark and it worked out great! I did the same with an automatic rifle and it didn't :)
- Mahn 10y ago
  This happens quite often with internet companies, passionate users reaching out and becoming support reps. There's something about really good products or brands that simply make people want to get involved.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
unusximmortalis 10y ago
"of Europe, nothing is open Sunday and nothing is open late at night" Hehe, try to visit eastern Europe and you'll get your wishes -- that is Europe too you know? ;-)

109 points by craigcannon 10y ago

I hope that guy continued working because he wanted to, not because he had to.

Nobody at Tumblr was gonna turn to me and be like, “Dude, you’re working too many hours, chill, take time, sleep.” No one ever turned to me and said that, ever. That's just sad. I wish more people did say this - everyone loses when a colleague burns out.

skybrian 10y ago
Well that's the thing about salaried jobs: if they're not watching you fairly closely, how would they know how many hours you're working?
- romanhn 10y ago
  It's not an exact science, but there are plenty of artifacts one would tend to leave around when working extra hours - late night emails, chat messages at odd hours, code commits or comments, whatever. Don't let it become a pattern. Outside of being unhealthy for the individual involved, it can be quite detrimental for the team. Managers especially can set unhealthy expectations without any conscious intent on their part.
- glenda 10y ago
  Companies shouldn't hire employees they don't trust. They may choose to watch out for bad behaviour (i.e. not answering emails when expected), however employees should never need to be watched at the level you're suggesting.
  - romanhn 10y ago
    I interpreted that comment as a question of how can we know that someone is working too much (and therefore should be concerned) if we don't know how much they're actually working.
    - glenda 10y ago
      Ah yes, that is a lot harder to detect. I think in that case minimum required vacations are a great way to make sure your employees take some time off.
  - megablast 10y ago
    Oh of course. Companies should only hire perfect people.
    - glenda 10y ago
      Of course not, but you should at least trust the people you hire!
- rtpg 10y ago
  Isn't the point of being salaried is you're being results-based instead of hourly based? Granted, there's an implicit agreement to do "40 hours" (or whatever the norm is), but that they're paying you for what you produce, not for how many hours you're in the seat.
  - skybrian 10y ago
    Yes, the point is that if nobody is watching you, it's up to you to set your own limits on work hours. You can't expect someone else to do it.
wott 10y ago
Oh, there are managers who learned their managing lesson that they should show care for the employees and will tell them this very sentence. ... And at the same they remind you about the deadline twice a day, ask you for an estimate thrice a day, and tell you should speed up because you won't be allowed to miss the deadline. This is worse than just putting pressure on someone. This kind of contradictory orders, of double binds, drives you crazy. Not only are you now afraid of failing the deadline, but you are also afraid of failing the 'hours check', for you know pretty well that they are incompatible. It also shows that the first advice was just fake, they don't give a damn about it, they just read somewhere that a good manager should say that so they say that, but they have no intent to build up the conditions so that it can happen.
- smcl 10y ago
  I have had this and it drives you insane. For some reason it caused me to start thinking of my holidays as yet another task I had to do, but didn't have time for - and instead of being a relaxing thing to look forward to became stressful "issue" I didn't want to handle
_pmf_ 10y ago
> That's just sad. I wish more people did say this - everyone loses when a colleague burns out. If some (single, without family) colleague does this, I usually assume he/she just likes his job very much (I worked a lot more, unpaid at home, when I did not have children, and enjoyed it). It's not always externally visible that this causes problems for the colleague, and it's a bit patronizing to assume that the guy/gal has a problem with it. Either you have a toxic environment, in which case everyone suffers the same, or you have a non-toxic environment where it's more or less up to you how much you work. If it's the latter, please don't put responsibility on your colleagues for your work load. If it's the former, due to the fact that it is an employer's market (despite what some shills try to tell you), you only have the option to leave.
- rebeccaskinner 10y ago
  A couple of companies ago I was the lead developer working mostly with people who were early on in their careers, single, and wanting to put in a lot of time. Even then I always advised them that programming and solving problems is fun, but they should find side projects or something and not spend all that extra effort on work projects. Even if they start doing it because of passion it can ruin things at work because it gives the managers a very poor sense of scale and estimation (because it's hard enough to estimate when you don't have to think about how interesting a given developer will find a problem as part of calculating velocity), it sets expectations on them that they really don't want to have (people start to count on your long hours even if you suddenly have something else going on in your life) and finally fresh ideas and new perspectives are the lifeblood of a team, so having people doing their own thing outside of work and bringing in those things is way more valuable than getting that one project done a little early.
PJDK 10y ago
I run a smallish team (6 including me) at a startupish company (as in it's quite small with growth ambitions, but the nature of the industry means it's never going to be worth much more than $40m even in the best case. I say this sort of thing - not that often because people have taken it on board. As far as I'm concerned it's just best practice. Sustained crunch style working doesn't make you go any faster - bugs, burn out, turn over they'll all kill any short term gains you might get. If someone is being pressured into running a team into the ground, they have a professional duty to push back against that - it's in the best interests of all concerned. I also feel that it makes it much easier to ask people to work longer if some emergency does come up that can't wait (bug in production or something like that - we get this maybe 3-4 times a year and it generally means a couple of late days getting it sorted). I'm not sure why anyone thinks "this time the death march might work!"

kinkora 10y ago

slightly off topic - Marc mentions he flies from Geneva to Amsterdam on Monday and vice versa on Friday and Craig's reaction to that seem to be of amazement. I am not from the continent obviously so I looked up the flight times and saw the total flight time was.. only 1.5 hours! Is that not normal and considered too long in Europe? I ask because in Australia, that's roughly the same flight time from Sydney <-> Melbourne and a gazillion people take that route on a daily basis [1] plus it is considered a pretty short flight (try flying to Perth or Brisbane). At one point of my consulting career, I found myself flying to Sydney from Melbourne constantly every week for 6 months and at times, I just make it a day trip and take the first flight out in the wee hours in the morning and come back later in the evening. Mention it to anyone in Australia and no one will bat an eye! [1] As of 2015, it is noted as the 4th busiest route in the world - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_passenger_air_routes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_passenger_air_...

ramenmeal 10y ago
He's probably not shocked by the distance, but rather the lifestyle of living in two places, one for work and one for your family.
abalone 10y ago
That's about 3.5 metric tons of CO2 over six months.[1] They should at least bat an eye. [1] http://www.icao.int/ENVIRONMENTAL-PROTECTION/CARBONOFFSET/Pages/default.aspx http://www.icao.int/ENVIRONMENTAL-PROTECTION/CARBONOFFSET/Pa...
- joneholland 10y ago
  The plane was going to fly regardless, he actually improved its load factor by flying on it.
  - wott 10y ago
    Once you've told this to each of the 250 guys who do the same, er...

dudeget 10y ago

I really like these, keep them coming!

sverige 10y ago

What a cool guy! He just took a shot in the dark and it worked out great! I shuddered a little when he said he loves doing support. I'm glad there are people like that. I really liked his attitude about compensation. Make as much as the last job so his wife doesn't complain. He's obviously driven by passion, not greed. I'll bet he's really pleasant to work with.

kowdermeister 10y ago
> What a cool guy! He just took a shot in the dark and it worked out great! I did the same with an automatic rifle and it didn't :)
Mahn 10y ago
This happens quite often with internet companies, passionate users reaching out and becoming support reps. There's something about really good products or brands that simply make people want to get involved.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

unusximmortalis 10y ago

"of Europe, nothing is open Sunday and nothing is open late at night" Hehe, try to visit eastern Europe and you'll get your wishes -- that is Europe too you know? ;-)