5 ms·

Maybe I'm missing something but why does "Pearl" mean 8480 and "Magical" -6129? If that's a hash, I really dislike this, because A: humans can't do hashing in t

by mabbo 10y ago

Maybe I'm missing something but why does "Pearl" mean 8480 and "Magical" -6129? If that's a hash, I really dislike this, because A: humans can't do hashing in their heads, and B: get one letter wrong and suddenly you don't have the right address. This has also been my big opposition to what3word. Addresses need to be resilient. If I make a tiny mistake in my address, there should be enough redundant data to help fix the problem. Postal Codes are great for this, because if you get your code wrong, well, it'll probably be one nearby and the delivery service can figure it out. But with hashes? One letter off and you're doomed.

Melkor765 10y ago
This is why he's incorporated the avatar - in the example he provides you wouldn't see the "boot" avatar if you had missed a letter, the boot is part of the address and should be communicated verbally when giving the address verbally.
- tener 10y ago
  If you are sending or telling someone the adress you can't expect them to check the avatar. How would it work e.g. over the phone?
  - T-A 10y ago
    From the README: If you want to transmit your Xaddress by phone you will say "7150 MAGICAL PEARL - Maluku ,Indonesia" my avatar is a boot
    - tener 10y ago
      So to check whether the address is valid I need to use a smartphone app. If I cannot do it online and only after someone gives me the address I will know it is broken, but will not know what is the correct address.
      - madgar 10y ago
        Bingo, error detection is functionally distinct from error recovery. In this context, error detection helps prevent some misdeliveries, but can't help ensure additional correct deliveries in the face of error. By analogy, ECC memory can typically detect two bit errors but can only correct single bit errors. That's because the functionality used to detect two bit errors in ECC memory is insufficient to recover both bits.
        kevin_thibedeau 10y ago
        The concept of an avatar doesn't translate across cultures. And the visual hash isn't an "avatar" as typically used on the internet. Furthermore, the images may be incomprehensible in some cultures. Keeping a minimal edit distance between code words in the corpus would enable error detection and correction without the burden of sending another piece of info.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
pns 10y ago
From having worked on addressing in Nairobi, Kenya for the past two years, I can tell you the precision problem is worse than you think actually. You're making the assumption * someone knows how to use a map to a very high degree of precision (not true often) * GPS is accurate enough, and this is a double whammy - on initial assignment of the GPS point (i.e. it's the GPS of their door/gate, not of their living room couch, and it was collected with enough precision) and on usage (i.e. the GPS antenna on a $30 smartphone) * plenty of other issues There are a couple startups trying to solve this beyond what3words mentioned in other comments - they'd suffer from many of the same issues I mention above. Some encourage people to put a placard outside their door/gate with the code to make last-mile arrival easier. But a more successful approach from research I've done is what OkHi (http://okhi.com http://okhi.com) is building - use a photo attached to GPS. From n>1000 tests, we found that the photo drastically decreases time over the alternative, even reducing average time to find the location by over 50% in the last 500m for some addresses. (Full disclosure - I was worked on the addressing problem for the two years in Nairobi at OkHi, so I obviously believe in their solution or wouldn't have dedicated that much time there :)
- pritianka 10y ago
  100% agree on the map usage and GPS precision. I've seen some pretty bad GPS in smaller towns in India.
- hangonhn 10y ago
  I am really interested in what you've learned because you obviously know a lot about a problem that's very physical and concreate. What is your approach or what will it be? However, you website is horrible at communicating any of that. I learned 4 billion people don't have addresses. OK great. Now what? "We want to physically connect the world with an address system that works. OkHi is unlocking commerce through enhanced logistics, saving lives through improved emergency services and growing access to finance through better personal identification." OK... how?
  - pns 10y ago
    Fair feedback re: comms on website. The OkHi approach is use your phone number as your universal key to share your address (with obvious privacy controls in place to control who can access it). The address itself is a GPS point + a photo - you can see an example at http://okhi.co/hq http://okhi.co/hq (best viewed on mobile - this is a vanity url, but you could very much imagine it eventually being something like okhi.co/+254/700111222). The OkHi business model (similar to other companies in the space) is to allow consumers to share these addresses peer-to-peer free and charge per-use businesses who work in logistics or need address data (e.g. food delivery, ecommerce, emergency services, banks, postal services). They collect the base address data that users can choose where they live from through our own on-the-ground data collection or smartly crowdsourced data (surprisingly scalable). Lots of promising progress, though obviously lots of work left to make it global. While it is easier to build a business controling the full stack, over time, the base addressing data could become open-sourced/ user address data stored in a public open db e.g. blockchain. I think the issues folks bring up of open-source benefits are very much in mind as this sort of system is built.
rattray 10y ago
https://github.com/roberdam/Xaddress/tree/master/by_hand https://github.com/roberdam/Xaddress/tree/master/by_hand
mtmail 10y ago
> One letter off and you're doomed. what3words autosuggest API allows setting fixed bounds and focus point during a request to make it more obvious. https://docs.what3words.com/api/v2/#autosuggest-clip https://docs.what3words.com/api/v2/#autosuggest-clip

by mabbo 10y ago

Melkor765 10y ago

This is why he's incorporated the avatar - in the example he provides you wouldn't see the "boot" avatar if you had missed a letter, the boot is part of the address and should be communicated verbally when giving the address verbally.

tener 10y ago
If you are sending or telling someone the adress you can't expect them to check the avatar. How would it work e.g. over the phone?
- T-A 10y ago
  From the README: If you want to transmit your Xaddress by phone you will say "7150 MAGICAL PEARL - Maluku ,Indonesia" my avatar is a boot
  - tener 10y ago
    So to check whether the address is valid I need to use a smartphone app. If I cannot do it online and only after someone gives me the address I will know it is broken, but will not know what is the correct address.
    - madgar 10y ago
      Bingo, error detection is functionally distinct from error recovery. In this context, error detection helps prevent some misdeliveries, but can't help ensure additional correct deliveries in the face of error. By analogy, ECC memory can typically detect two bit errors but can only correct single bit errors. That's because the functionality used to detect two bit errors in ECC memory is insufficient to recover both bits.
      - kevin_thibedeau 10y ago
        The concept of an avatar doesn't translate across cultures. And the visual hash isn't an "avatar" as typically used on the internet. Furthermore, the images may be incomprehensible in some cultures. Keeping a minimal edit distance between code words in the corpus would enable error detection and correction without the burden of sending another piece of info.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

pns 10y ago

From having worked on addressing in Nairobi, Kenya for the past two years, I can tell you the precision problem is worse than you think actually. You're making the assumption * someone knows how to use a map to a very high degree of precision (not true often) * GPS is accurate enough, and this is a double whammy - on initial assignment of the GPS point (i.e. it's the GPS of their door/gate, not of their living room couch, and it was collected with enough precision) and on usage (i.e. the GPS antenna on a $30 smartphone) * plenty of other issues There are a couple startups trying to solve this beyond what3words mentioned in other comments - they'd suffer from many of the same issues I mention above. Some encourage people to put a placard outside their door/gate with the code to make last-mile arrival easier. But a more successful approach from research I've done is what OkHi (http://okhi.com http://okhi.com) is building - use a photo attached to GPS. From n>1000 tests, we found that the photo drastically decreases time over the alternative, even reducing average time to find the location by over 50% in the last 500m for some addresses. (Full disclosure - I was worked on the addressing problem for the two years in Nairobi at OkHi, so I obviously believe in their solution or wouldn't have dedicated that much time there :)

pritianka 10y ago
100% agree on the map usage and GPS precision. I've seen some pretty bad GPS in smaller towns in India.
hangonhn 10y ago
I am really interested in what you've learned because you obviously know a lot about a problem that's very physical and concreate. What is your approach or what will it be? However, you website is horrible at communicating any of that. I learned 4 billion people don't have addresses. OK great. Now what? "We want to physically connect the world with an address system that works. OkHi is unlocking commerce through enhanced logistics, saving lives through improved emergency services and growing access to finance through better personal identification." OK... how?
- pns 10y ago
  Fair feedback re: comms on website. The OkHi approach is use your phone number as your universal key to share your address (with obvious privacy controls in place to control who can access it). The address itself is a GPS point + a photo - you can see an example at http://okhi.co/hq http://okhi.co/hq (best viewed on mobile - this is a vanity url, but you could very much imagine it eventually being something like okhi.co/+254/700111222). The OkHi business model (similar to other companies in the space) is to allow consumers to share these addresses peer-to-peer free and charge per-use businesses who work in logistics or need address data (e.g. food delivery, ecommerce, emergency services, banks, postal services). They collect the base address data that users can choose where they live from through our own on-the-ground data collection or smartly crowdsourced data (surprisingly scalable). Lots of promising progress, though obviously lots of work left to make it global. While it is easier to build a business controling the full stack, over time, the base addressing data could become open-sourced/ user address data stored in a public open db e.g. blockchain. I think the issues folks bring up of open-source benefits are very much in mind as this sort of system is built.

rattray 10y ago

https://github.com/roberdam/Xaddress/tree/master/by_hand https://github.com/roberdam/Xaddress/tree/master/by_hand

mtmail 10y ago

> One letter off and you're doomed. what3words autosuggest API allows setting fixed bounds and focus point during a request to make it more obvious. https://docs.what3words.com/api/v2/#autosuggest-clip https://docs.what3words.com/api/v2/#autosuggest-clip