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> These banks want to maintain complete control over their customers. And Apple want to maintain complete control over their customers. No-one has clean hands
by wtbob 10y ago
> These banks want to maintain complete control over their customers.
And Apple want to maintain complete control over their customers. No-one has clean hands in this.
I trust that Apple's cage has much nicer gilding than the banks', but I'd rather not live in a cage at all, thank you very much.
- sjwright 10y agoiPhones aren't cages, they're serviced apartments. You pay a bit more and you don't get a choice on the decor, but you also don't have to vacuum the carpet, put out the trash, replace broken light bulbs, or lug heavy furniture around. Apple makes it abundantly clear that they're selling an integrated solution. Anyone who cares about this knows this. It's not strictly Apple's fault if people who want a different deal buy their product in error.
- ocean3 10y agoIsn't every mobile the same?
- nostromo 10y agoThat's a false equivalency. Apple being a closed platform is not an excuse to allow the banks to form a cartel. If you don't like Apple, you can use Android. But if every bank in Australia decides what you can and can't do with your phone when making payments, where will you go?
- WaylonKenning 10y agoIt's not every bank, you can use ANZ.
- flukus 10y agoThis isn't banks acting like cartels, it's banks defining industry standards.
- xbmcuser 10y agoI don't think banks are blocking Apple pay. But are asking access to the NFC chip so they can have their own NFC apps. I think they are in the right in this.
- zepto 10y agoNo, because they don't know anything but about keeping a mobile platform safe from attack.
- Veratyr 10y agoAustralian banks have been releasing NFC payment apps for Android phones for years now and there haven't been any major attacks. I'm reasonably confident they can handle this well. I don't trust Apple nearly as much as I trust my bank.
- zepto 10y agoAndroid is under constant attack and there are huge botnets and malware. Just because a particularly bank hasn't been hit doesn't mean that money isn't being stolen. ApplePay is already operating at scale in numerous countries without any incidents. Why wouldn't you trust Apple with an already proven system?
- Veratyr 10y ago> Android is under constant attack and there are huge botnets and malware. Just because a particularly bank hasn't been hit doesn't mean that money isn't being stolen. Do you have even anecdotal evidence of Android payments being compromised? > ApplePay is already operating at scale in numerous countries without any incidents. Why wouldn't you trust Apple with an already proven system? I didn't say I wouldn't trust it, I said I wouldn't trust it more than my banks. My banks have been operating at scale years longer than Apple has. Not the same scale but enough that I'm confident.
- tomp 10y agoIt's even worse. If Apple gets their way, ApplePay will be available to Apple users only. If banks get their way, their payment system will be available to everybody. It's quite clear to me which one is better...
- paperpunk 10y agoApple Pay doesn't stop other payment provisions from functioning. The same contactless reader will read Apple Pay, Contactless cards, and Android Pay. Of course Apple Pay will only be available to Apple users. That's literally what Apple Pay is: contactless payment on an Apple device. There's no reason for there to be Apple Pay on Android or another platform.
- tomp 10y agoMy worry is that if because of Apple's market power, merchants would be less likely to implement other NFC technologies (Contactless, Android Pay) once they have Apple Pay. The technologies are clearly different (even if they use the same reader), otherwise all places that support one would automatically support all of them.
- izacus 10y agoWhich still means I'm not allowed to pay for anything on an Apple device (since Apple hasn't and probably won't make it available locally), while an application built by my bank would.
- coldcode 10y agoI've worked for banks. I'd trust Apple to build a secure environment but not a bank.
- izacus 10y agoWhich kinda misses my point. A "secure" Apple service only available in select few countries with no ability to compete or implement your own is more useless than theorycrafting your experiences from banks to other world banks.
- josho 10y agoSo, the smartest thing that can come out of this is a published open standard to allow access and innovation. You know kind of like how we got SMTP, HTTP, etc.
- amluto 10y agoAll of the above is already done for all practical purposes. The banks presumably want to have an app do card emulation with a given AID. The protocols are ISO standards and they're trivial. Android has allowed this since 5.0 IIRC. Presumably Apple doesn't want to lose their cut. I don't see why allowing card emulation is a problem in and of itself for security, though. The security problem I do see, though, is that third parties will have a hard time using the secure element to protect their keys. Of course, Apple could help them, but it obviously doesn't want to.
- mcv 10y agoYeah, when I read that, I immediately thought of pots calling kettles black.