8 ms·

Behind the Icons: An interview with Susan Kare

42 points by Mz 10y ago

mhurron 10y ago
> it (the icon on the Command Key) was designed by Susan Kare back in the '80s No it wasn't. The symbol is very old and all over Scandinavia. Kare offered it as one of several options presented for the icon of the Command Key.
- derefr 10y ago
  There probably isn't any single symbol-glyph composing five-or-fewer lines that isn't "very old and all over"; there are only so many possibilities on the low end of complexity. It's still a matter of original design to think of using a particular symbol-glyph to visually represent a previously-unsymbolized thing in a new domain.
  - henrikeh 10y ago
    On the contrary, Susan Kare herself mentioned the Swedish origin as the source for inspiration[0] > So I said, "Let's try something abstract." So I was pouring through books of symbols, and I thought it was a sign on Swedish campgrounds that meant "interesting feature," or something to look at that was interesting. So that seemed to fit. And it lent itself to being digital without being jagged. That definitely came from a symbol book, or an interpretation of something in a symbol book that sort of made sense. Because I like the idea instead of just drawing some shape and saying "That's the control key," even though nobody who ever saw it-- actually, every now and then I hear from someone who actually had seen one of the signs. Mainly it is just abstract, but I knew it meant something relevant. [0]: http://web.archive.org/web/20150527143227/http://web.stanford.edu/dept/SUL/library/mac/primary/interviews/kare/mac.html http://web.archive.org/web/20150527143227/http://web.stanfor...
    - derefr 10y ago
      I didn't mean to imply that she wasn't taking inspiration from a thing that existed already. My point was that, when you're a designer asked to "create" a symbol-glyph, there's nothing you can do but to draw inspiration from something that exists already. Every little squiggle humans can make with a pen already has some connotation or another; design, then, is about searching the design-space for an existing squiggle that already has the connotation you want along with the least conflicting "ownership."
      - kuschku 10y ago
        She didn’t draw inspiration. She literally copied it, 1:1.
        coldcode 10y ago
        Copying from history is a choice, that's what a designer does. There were many phones before the iPhone. There were computers before the Mac. There were wheels before Firestone. Knowing what to choose and have it work as a design in a skill most people do not have. As Steve Jobs said "Good artists copy; great artists steal" which I believe is also a copy.
Animats 10y ago
Kare designed the look of the Mac, some of the Windows icons, some of Facebook's icons, and some of PayPal's icons. She's well known in design, and still active, but few people building software seem to know who she is. Her web site, www.kare.com, has her portfolio.
- dudeget 10y ago
  she must have gotten that domain early on
  - aaronbrethorst 10y ago
    Easily answered: $ whois kare.com Whois Server Version 2.0 Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net for detailed information. Domain Name: KARE.COM Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, LLC. Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 2 Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com Referral URL: http://networksolutions.com Name Server: NS75.DOMAINCONTROL.COM Name Server: NS76.DOMAINCONTROL.COM Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited Updated Date: 02-apr-2016 Creation Date: 18-feb-1996 Expiration Date: 19-feb-2024 Creation Date: 18-feb-1996 Yes.
supernintendo 10y ago
Susan Kare is a pioneer. Laymen might look at those classic icons today and not think much of them, but UX designers should be able to appreciate the challenge of conveying explicit ideas through symbolism. Now consider the limitations of the Macintosh for a single icon - black and white, 32x32 pixels and little to no prior UX work to draw inspiration from. Kare worked within these parameters and designed some of the most fun and memorable icons of computing history in the process. Not to mention, her playful approach to design is something we don't see enough of in this modern age of UX. When I look at my iPhone's home screen, I see a grid of geometrically identical, sterile icons. Generally speaking each icon is flat, uses a limited color palette and contains a perfect or near-perfect balance of positive and negative space. Consistent, well-designed and aesthetically pleasing icons; and yet, lacking the personality that make Kare's icons so great.
- munificent 10y ago
  > and little to no prior UX work to draw inspiration from Not just that, but she had to design icons usable by people who had never touched a computer or a mouse before in their life. UX designers today have the luxury of building on top of a huge pile of computer knowledge that is already in most users' heads. Kare and the rest of the Macintosh folks had no such luxury, and it was their great work getting those early concepts learned that let us take it for granted today.
scandox 10y ago
"Generally, it's a lot easier to represent concrete nouns than abstract concepts, so "document" is easier to design than "undo." This is a problem I run into all the time. I was only asking about it yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12260700 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12260700 We need a good standard for abstract concept icons
behnamoh 10y ago
Susan Kare designed the Chicago typeface for Macintosh, which was later used (with some modifications) in the early iPods. Chicago is indeed one of the most intuitive and beautiful fonts I've ever seen.
- janoelze 10y ago
  and it was her first project at apple too! bull's-eye.
merkleme 10y ago
I must admit I was surprised to read how many women there were working in prominent positions back in the 80's at Apple. Jobs was truly a pioneer.
- icebraining 10y ago
  A pioneer at getting falsely credited. Susan Kare was invited by Andy Hertzfeld, when Jef Raskin was still the leader of the Macintosh project.
  - Cenk 10y ago
    Not to put words into merkleme’s mouth, but he may not have meant that Jobs himself personally all the women who worked at Apple, but rather that a culture of openness, diversity and meritocracy thrived under his leadership.
    - merkleme 10y ago
      Thank you, thats exactly what I meant.
mattkevan 10y ago
I miss Clarus the Dogcow. macOS needs more Clarus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogcow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogcow

42 points by Mz 10y ago

> it (the icon on the Command Key) was designed by Susan Kare back in the '80s No it wasn't. The symbol is very old and all over Scandinavia. Kare offered it as one of several options presented for the icon of the Command Key.

derefr 10y ago
There probably isn't any single symbol-glyph composing five-or-fewer lines that isn't "very old and all over"; there are only so many possibilities on the low end of complexity. It's still a matter of original design to think of using a particular symbol-glyph to visually represent a previously-unsymbolized thing in a new domain.
- henrikeh 10y ago
  On the contrary, Susan Kare herself mentioned the Swedish origin as the source for inspiration[0] > So I said, "Let's try something abstract." So I was pouring through books of symbols, and I thought it was a sign on Swedish campgrounds that meant "interesting feature," or something to look at that was interesting. So that seemed to fit. And it lent itself to being digital without being jagged. That definitely came from a symbol book, or an interpretation of something in a symbol book that sort of made sense. Because I like the idea instead of just drawing some shape and saying "That's the control key," even though nobody who ever saw it-- actually, every now and then I hear from someone who actually had seen one of the signs. Mainly it is just abstract, but I knew it meant something relevant. [0]: http://web.archive.org/web/20150527143227/http://web.stanford.edu/dept/SUL/library/mac/primary/interviews/kare/mac.html http://web.archive.org/web/20150527143227/http://web.stanfor...
  - derefr 10y ago
    I didn't mean to imply that she wasn't taking inspiration from a thing that existed already. My point was that, when you're a designer asked to "create" a symbol-glyph, there's nothing you can do but to draw inspiration from something that exists already. Every little squiggle humans can make with a pen already has some connotation or another; design, then, is about searching the design-space for an existing squiggle that already has the connotation you want along with the least conflicting "ownership."
    - kuschku 10y ago
      She didn’t draw inspiration. She literally copied it, 1:1.
      - coldcode 10y ago
        Copying from history is a choice, that's what a designer does. There were many phones before the iPhone. There were computers before the Mac. There were wheels before Firestone. Knowing what to choose and have it work as a design in a skill most people do not have. As Steve Jobs said "Good artists copy; great artists steal" which I believe is also a copy.

Animats 10y ago

Kare designed the look of the Mac, some of the Windows icons, some of Facebook's icons, and some of PayPal's icons. She's well known in design, and still active, but few people building software seem to know who she is. Her web site, www.kare.com, has her portfolio.

dudeget 10y ago
she must have gotten that domain early on
- aaronbrethorst 10y ago
  Easily answered: $ whois kare.com Whois Server Version 2.0 Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net for detailed information. Domain Name: KARE.COM Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, LLC. Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 2 Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com Referral URL: http://networksolutions.com Name Server: NS75.DOMAINCONTROL.COM Name Server: NS76.DOMAINCONTROL.COM Status: clientTransferProhibited https://icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited Updated Date: 02-apr-2016 Creation Date: 18-feb-1996 Expiration Date: 19-feb-2024 Creation Date: 18-feb-1996 Yes.

supernintendo 10y ago

Susan Kare is a pioneer. Laymen might look at those classic icons today and not think much of them, but UX designers should be able to appreciate the challenge of conveying explicit ideas through symbolism. Now consider the limitations of the Macintosh for a single icon - black and white, 32x32 pixels and little to no prior UX work to draw inspiration from. Kare worked within these parameters and designed some of the most fun and memorable icons of computing history in the process. Not to mention, her playful approach to design is something we don't see enough of in this modern age of UX. When I look at my iPhone's home screen, I see a grid of geometrically identical, sterile icons. Generally speaking each icon is flat, uses a limited color palette and contains a perfect or near-perfect balance of positive and negative space. Consistent, well-designed and aesthetically pleasing icons; and yet, lacking the personality that make Kare's icons so great.

munificent 10y ago
> and little to no prior UX work to draw inspiration from Not just that, but she had to design icons usable by people who had never touched a computer or a mouse before in their life. UX designers today have the luxury of building on top of a huge pile of computer knowledge that is already in most users' heads. Kare and the rest of the Macintosh folks had no such luxury, and it was their great work getting those early concepts learned that let us take it for granted today.

scandox 10y ago

"Generally, it's a lot easier to represent concrete nouns than abstract concepts, so "document" is easier to design than "undo." This is a problem I run into all the time. I was only asking about it yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12260700 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12260700 We need a good standard for abstract concept icons

behnamoh 10y ago

Susan Kare designed the Chicago typeface for Macintosh, which was later used (with some modifications) in the early iPods. Chicago is indeed one of the most intuitive and beautiful fonts I've ever seen.

janoelze 10y ago
and it was her first project at apple too! bull's-eye.

merkleme 10y ago

I must admit I was surprised to read how many women there were working in prominent positions back in the 80's at Apple. Jobs was truly a pioneer.

icebraining 10y ago
A pioneer at getting falsely credited. Susan Kare was invited by Andy Hertzfeld, when Jef Raskin was still the leader of the Macintosh project.
- Cenk 10y ago
  Not to put words into merkleme’s mouth, but he may not have meant that Jobs himself personally all the women who worked at Apple, but rather that a culture of openness, diversity and meritocracy thrived under his leadership.
  - merkleme 10y ago
    Thank you, thats exactly what I meant.

mattkevan 10y ago

I miss Clarus the Dogcow. macOS needs more Clarus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogcow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogcow

Behind the Icons: ​An interview with Susan Kare

Behind the Icons: ​An interview with Susan Kare

Behind the Icons: An interview with Susan Kare

Behind the Icons: An interview with Susan Kare